Posts by Rattigan350

the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

Rattigan350

aqwsed

"This scene is clearly a heavenly vision, as they are described as being "before the throne" of God, which is in heaven, not on earth."

Being before the throne has nothing to do with location.

"This verse, along with others such as Philippians 1:23, clearly speaks of a hope for immediate presence with the Lord after death for believers. It affirms the hope of all believers, not just a select few, to be with Christ. "

The reason for being resurrection to heaven is not to be with Jesus. That is what pastors teach to get people to come to their churches. The only immediate presence with Jesus after death is for after Jesus becomes king and their resurrection is instant and they don't sleep in death.

Prior they slept in death waiting.

You shouldn't look at what this or that scripture says and what the translations say.

Look at the mechanics of how things work:

There is no reason for more than 144,000 to be in heaven.

There is no reason for anyone ruling to be on earth. Ruling on earth has no power. It can't accomplish what is needed to accomplish, i.e. resurrect billions and judge them.

Jesus said his kingdom was no part of this world. That is because it would rule from heaven, not from this world.

57

2024 Annual Meeting Doctrinal Change

by Listener in

a change to their doctrine came from jackson.

this isn't a transcript of his whole speech but i thought i would try and get some of his main speech in writing.. at around 1hr26 minutes he starts talking about some dangerous thinking in feeling there is some wiggle room in regards to the schedule for the gt.

but you see, we need to be careful about what we are thinking about the number of anointed ones left on earth.

Rattigan350

"Where on earth does Jackson think that the rank and file got the idea that the number of anointed would decrease as we got closer to Armageddon?"

Well, because the number of partakers went down in 1995. The increase since then is not real. More have not been anointed. Those are just people who want to believe they have been anointed.

I'd say that there is just a handfull of anointed left on earth.

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

Rattigan350

Simple. JWs want to serve the true God Jehovah. No one else does.

31

October Elder's Letter Delayed- Big Announcement at Annual Meeting

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/93h5zpbil6k?si=ffatfxjuxmj_na9i.

Rattigan350

I like the newer songs. they are disco and reggae.

There is a good reason for that.

42

Two new Governing Body members

by slimboyfat in

jeddoly and rumph???.

who are they?

.

Rattigan350

There is no need for negativity as in mentioning 1975 or the organization vs Jesus.

However they are not anointed.

Just because someone is working in the service department at Bethel does not place one in line to be anointed.
That is just something that is said of the governing body, because it is tradition.

59

Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

by slimboyfat in

the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

Rattigan350

There are not two destinies.

Those that get resurrected to heaven do that to do a job. It is work, not a destiny. They do not sit on clouds to play harps with Jesus.

I will explain it in simple terms.

Ex 19:5,6 "Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me.  You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."

Jer 31:31 "“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant"

1 Peter 2:9 "But you are “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession," has him calling the Christians, Israel. The ones with the new covenant.

Rev 5:10 and 20:6 tells us that the first resurrection is of those ones that rule with Jesus in the heavens who will be kings and priests with him.

Kings and priests were anointed with oil as a sign of their being chosen for that job. Kings and priests with the new covenant are anointed with holy spirit as a sign or token of their being chosen for that job.

Rev 7 tells us that 12,000 out of 12 tribes is the total number of Israel of the spirit; the ones that Peter mentioned. The covenant having been transferred from physical Israel to spiritual Israel.

It's that simple.

So forget about "absent from the body is presence with the Lord". It does not fit the formula.

59

Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

by slimboyfat in

the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

Rattigan350

" Revelation indicates a great crowd in heaven that rules as kings and priests for a thousand years and 144,000 ruling as kings forever from New Jerusalem on earth."

No. That great crowd seen in Rev 19 is a general term. It is not the same as the ones in Rev 7.

The 144,000 do not rule on earth.

Heb 12:22 says heavenly Jerusalem were Jesus and the 144,000 rule.

Jesus said his kingdom is no part of the world. That is because it is heavenly.