Slimboyfat, I talked to Penton on the phone in the mid 90s. He was not pleasant and not good to talk to. Just holding a chip on his shoulder. But anyone who is anti Watchtower is angry. In the late 80s, I talked to Walter Martin on his radio show about 1 Tim 3:16 and he accused me of 'That's not scholarly, that's not scholarly' and hung up.
Rattigan350
JoinedPosts by Rattigan350
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33
Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies
by slimboyfat ini don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.
james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.
unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.
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Trump wins
by gavindlt ini am non political and have never voted but nonetheless i have been keenly watching to see how the trump presidential race unfolds.
i believe that his involvement in propelling or influencing a leaning toward bible prophecy will unfold.
how, i can’t say but something tells me that this anomaly and outlier being trump is highly signifiant!
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Rattigan350
I'm just glad that the prosecutions and court cases against Trump will end or be put on hold. Such misuse of the courts for politics is wrong.
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Creation, Not Evolution Best Explains Genetics
by Sea Breeze inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umnhg0a9dlu.
evolutionists can change their model, and invent stories whenever they want to accomodate data.
biblical literalists are stuck with just one model, one account, and are unable to change it.
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Rattigan350
Evolution can't explain reproduction.
Evolution can't explain how the need to cleans blood altered DNA to create 2 kidneys on each side of the body. Then they started filtering and the output went where? Just in the body and the people died from sepsis?
Then the DNA got the idea that it needs to direct the bad things out of the body so it created uterers down. Then those uterers merged in a bladder that hadn't evolved yet because there was no need. Then the bladder got full and got backed up and people died. Then the DNA got the idea that it needs to mutate to create a urethra and send it out the body. Why not just use the penis as it has a hole in it for semen and sperm? And for women just make a hole to go out.
That's nuts. DNA can't think and mutations can created such precise organs.
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What is Your Favorite WT Lie?
by Sea Breeze ini would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.
surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.
my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.
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Rattigan350
How are any of those things Lies?
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51
The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity
by Longlivetherenegades inthose who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .
1. father .
2. jesus .
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Rattigan350
Sanchy said "It's interesting how both sides of the argument could use different Bible scriptures to prove their point."
No. There is nothing that the trinitarians can do to prove it. What they use are weak and irrelevant arguments from scriptures that are spurious and controversial. They just have their pet scriptures, but when examined they don't work.
They like to use John 1:1. Word was God.
But they don't understand that it was a prologue to the biography of Jesus written 65 years after his death.
Doesn't that contradict Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;" But they don't see that.
How about something contemporaneous to his life?
They like to use what Thomas said "My Lord and My God" which is out of context, but they ignore specific sayings to the contrary.
John 1:49 "Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."
And Matt 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Oh, but they created this "God the Son" thing to get around that.
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51
The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity
by Longlivetherenegades inthose who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .
1. father .
2. jesus .
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Rattigan350
"The diagram is scriptural and illustrates how Jesus is both Fully Man and Fully God. Please explain how my chart is unscriptural or inconsistent?"
What scriptures support that diagram?
The ones you listed there don't support that. Yes, God is spirit. Nothing to do with Body, Soul and Spirit. Yes, 1 Thess 5:23 says "may the spirit and soul and body of you brothers" it does not indicate a tripartite nature of man because while Pauls wrote that, he was wrong. Soul = body + spirit or breath. I accept what Genesis 2:7 said over Paul "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Body + breath of life = living soul. 1+1 = 2. Not 1+1+ 1.
"Jesus raised himself from the dead"
If Jesus could do that, he wasn't dead. Then the sacrifice was invalid.
No, death does not mean separation. Death means not working or functioning. It's like turning your computer off and unplugging it. It's dead. It won't come on.
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33
Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies
by slimboyfat ini don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.
james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.
unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.
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Rattigan350
Penton was an angry man. He's not in heaven like he thought he would be. The thing about being mild tempered is in play there.
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Meeting attendance
by Farmer Jim1 infor those still in the organization what is your meeting attendance like these days?.
when i left in 2017 there were around 80 publishers and the average meeting attendance was 70..
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Rattigan350
I attend all of the meetings because that is how I can show off my brilliance.
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51
The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity
by Longlivetherenegades inthose who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .
1. father .
2. jesus .
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Rattigan350
Sea Breeze, why do you all have to bring in these unscriptural, made up diagrams?
Body, Soul and Spirit???? What does that have to do with anything?
Don't you know that it is Body + spirit = living soul.
If you can't get that even right...
In John 2:19 Jesus did not predict that he would raise himself from the dead, because Acts said that God raised him up. And if he could raise himself from the dead, he wasn't dead.
Stop focusing on the words that were written because the words could have been said or written wrongly. Yes, Jesus said a bunch of crazy stuff that the apostles didn't understand and they may not have recorded it properly.
So learn the mechanics of how things work and that won't be a problem.
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Explanation for changes to Disfellowshipping rules at Annual Meeting
by Listener inwally, a youtuber from jw thoughts highlighted something that was said by kenneth cook jnr in the annual meeting.
he thinks it may be removed before they publish the agm.
i doubt we would see it in writing either.. part of kenneth's talk was about the changes regarding disfellowshipping and the clip from jw thoughts youtube shows him saying -.
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Rattigan350
The thing that no one gets is that the disfellowshipping thing comes from 1 Corinthians. Paul's letter to a congregation 2000 years ago. Why are we reading and making policy from one man's letter to another congregation from that long ago?
Wouldn't it have to be something from the apostles and older men (which they call the governing body of that time) and they would make a declaration and that would be sent to all of the congregations?