Posts by Rattigan350

40

How Do JWs Understand Salvation & What Is Needed to Obtain It?

by LauraLynn in

from my experience within the jw organization, i understood that salvation meant a person accepted the teachings of the wbts without question as the "faithful and discrete slave," thereby placing their trust in them, not jesus christ.

salvation consisted of being found "righteous" by jehovah and resurrected to everlasting life in an earthly paradise.

to obtain this salvation, one needed to obey the organization's teachings, remain a faithful jw, and lead a moral life.

Rattigan350

There is no salvation.

People have been dying for millenia

Salvation will come with the resurrection.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Rattigan350

The word 'today' is meaningless regardless of where the comma is.

One must not follow words but understand the mechanics of the process.

The thief could not have gone to heaven that day or at all. Here are the reasons why not:

1 Cor 15:22,23 says:"and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence"

No one could go to heaven before Jesus, as he was the Firstfruits. He died on Friday Nisan 14, and was dead until his resurrection on Sunday Nisan 16. He did not ascend until 40 days later. So that guy was not in heaven that day, because Jesus wasn't.

John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Jesus ascended to prepare a place for them in heaven, so no one could go before that.

Also John 3:5 says "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Baptism of the spirit did not start until Pentecost, 50 days after Jesus was resurrected. That guy didn't get the spirit and is not in heaven.

He is dead and waiting for Jesus to resurrect him to the earth as Rev 20:13 says.

39

I've done it: Christmas Lights Outside

by StephaneLaliberte in

lets see if that causes a problem.

i've been inactive for a very long time now (like 10+ years), so, i don't expect to hear anything from it, but my parents are worried i'll get df.

lets see what happens.

Rattigan350

No, I'm not being sarcastic. Why are you all talking about the elders' response? You all left the religion and claim freedom, but to do things just because the world does them and it is not your idea, is following the world.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living."

Or 1 Cor 7:23 "You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings.'

I don't see why fading from JWs automatically means one jumps on the bandwagon for the world.

24

The Creation Story of Genesis 1 in its literary context

by Leolaia in

genesis 1 , the priestly (p) account of creation, has often been compared with the enuma elish, the akkadian creation myth.

some have claimed that p is dependent on the latter, but this is highly improbable.

in terms of similarities, most note the parallel of marduk splitting the body of the sea-monster tiamat and creating the heavens and earth from it, and elohim's division of the thwm "watery deep" (hebrew cognate of akkadian tiamat) into the heavens, earth, and seas.

Rattigan350

It's not that difficult. God gave the story of the creation to Moses in revelation. Moses wrote what he saw. God didn't tell him what to write.

Gen 1 does reference to the creation of clouds, 1:6 mentions the expanse and the division between the waters and the waters. That's the clouds. And in vs 14 speaks of luminaries. The luminaries of the sun and moon were created at Gen 1;1 so this speaks of the clouds letting them be seen from earth so clouds were there.

What confuses people is the days thing. But time was not mentioned until Gen 5:3 "Adam lived for 130 years and then became father to a son". That was the first occasion that time was mentioned. The days came later.

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Rattigan350

Seabreeze, now you are getting crazy by saying "Care to expalin how Jesus resurrected himself from the dead while he was dead, without being God."

Jesus did not resurrect himself simply because he was dead.

Ps 115:17 "The dead do not praise Jah;Nor do any who go down into the silence of death."

If the dead can't praise Jehovah, then they can't resurrect themselves.

In John 2, Jesus did not predict that he would raise himself.

The Jews asked him "What sign can you show us,
Jesus said Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

He did not say that he would be resurrected in 3 days.

It was John who added " he was talking about the temple of his body."

Tear down this temple, his body by killing him, and he would raise the new temple.

Jesus' raising of the temple meant the starting of the spiritual temple in action, by having the perfect sacrifice and then his presenting of it to his Father.

He wasn't saying that he would raise himself from the dead. And his body was not raised up.

I don't understand what your purpose is. You mentioned Gal 1:12 about Paul receiving the good news.

Your teaching that Jesus is the creator and that he raised his body from the dead is not consistent with that

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Rattigan350

!Seabreeze you stated " Paul explicitly states that his gospel was received directly by revelation from Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:12)."

Full context here.vs 11 "that the good news I declared to you is not of human origin;" It is the good news that he received from Jesus that he stated, not the history of the universe.

You acknowledge that Gen 1:26 " God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" Sounds like Jehovah is speaking to another. The another is his son. The master worker. However, it is clear throughout gen 1 it says God in every verse. And starting in Gen 2;7 it says Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Nothing about Jesus giving life there. Vs 8,9,15,18,19,21,22 state Jehovah God.

So why they need to ask if Jesus is the creator when it specifically states that Jehovah God?

"Firstborn of all creation" (v. 15) does not mean Jesus is part of creation. " Why do people continually say that? Jesus is not the supreme being so he had a beginning. That is why he and others called him God's son. Paul's calling him the firstborn of all creation shows that.

There is nothing wrong or bad about saying that Jesus was created to make him the son of God.

You all in your attempts to elevate Jesus forget 1 John 5:13 "I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God". He specifically was termed that for a reason. And using that shows we acknowledge that he was created.

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Rattigan350

Is Jesus the creator?

He never said he was.

You are relying on outsiders like John and Paul, ones who did not experience the creation process.

What did Jesus say who was the creator.

Matt 6:26 "Observe intently the birds of heaven, they do not sow seed or reap or gather into storehouses, yet your heavenly Father feeds them"

Jesus' Father, Jehovah, doesn't actually feed the birds. What he did was created the rain cycle of water evaporating and going to the clouds and rain. And also photsynthesis to have plants grow. That is an automated process designed by Jesus' Father.

Jehovah God is the architect of the material world.

While Jesus was the actual worker making those things. Prov 8:30 said of him "Then I was beside him as a master worker"

Jesus didn't say he did that or that he created anything. He gave credit to his Father.

So why do people go against him and want to make him the creator because an outsider said a verse about that?

13

Why are the Governing Body Members always in-house New York Bethel members?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower—study edition | february 2024.

''we are pleased to inform you that two additional brothers have been appointed to serve as members of the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses: brothers gage fleegle and jeffrey winder.

both brothers are anointed christians who have a long history of loyal service to jehovah.

Rattigan350

That's what I wonder. What about getting fishermen (regular workers) or tax collectors or people of many occupations.

25

gossip

by Nancy1919 in

i was once was told by an jw elder it was a rule not to gossip or swear as it could harm someone, but i guess the new light allows this.

it was bad enough when they were calling people worldly now i heard a jw gossiping about someone and it was mean.just another reason i would never go back.

.

Rattigan350

"told by an jw elder it was a rule not to gossip or swear as it could harm someone,"

What? You had to be told by an elder that? Didn't your mother tell you not to talk about others? If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it at all? If people rely on the elders to learn that they shouldn't gossip, then manners have really gone away.

39

I've done it: Christmas Lights Outside

by StephaneLaliberte in

lets see if that causes a problem.

i've been inactive for a very long time now (like 10+ years), so, i don't expect to hear anything from it, but my parents are worried i'll get df.

lets see what happens.

Rattigan350

How sad that you resorted to following the world.