EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

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  114

  What is truth?

  by Heisenberg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.

  i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.

  they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.

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  EdenOne

  Heisenberg, you wrote this reply:

  Why is the issue of shunning a problem? If the bible was very clear about who should be shunned and how this should be done, would that be more acceptable to you?  Human society has always shunned people that do not conform to the rules. If you commit a crime, you may be punished by being sent to jail and excluded from society until you 'repent' by changing your attitude. Who determines these rules? In many lands, adultery and homosexuality are still punishable by death or jail. It is up to each group of people to decide the rules and the consequences for breaking them. Wasn't the great schism of the Catholic church an act of shunning? 

  You [as most JWs also] seem to think that disfellowshipping and shunning are one and the same thing. Very few ex-JWs argue that is wrongful that the congregation is entitled to terminate fellowship with those who refuse to comply with the rules, moral or doctrinal. However, shunning is another matter. Even the Bible doesn't support shunning as it's prescribed and imposed by the Governing Body upon the Witnesses. The historical context of the Christian communities in the first and second centuries is very important to give a proper understanding of what the apostles Paul and John meant when they discussed how should Christians deal with transgressors and dissenters. Of course, that historical research doesn't interest the Governing Body at all, because it would uncover serious theological implications that colide with the teachings from the Society since the 1930's; it would besides reveal just how removed the contemporary meetings are from the Christian gatherings originally. Because when you understand how these gatherings worked, then it becomes clear what Paul and John were talking about, and it wasn't surely the shunning as taught by the WTS.

  Eden
  
  
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  83

  Music!! Who's your Favorite Top Ten Rock Groups or Solo Artists All Time?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mr. flipper here again gang!

  so who do ya like all time?mr.

  flippers list is as follows, almost in this way.

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  EdenOne

  1) Pink Floyd

  2) The Beatles / Paul McCartney

  3) Vangelis

  4) Jean-Michel Jarre

  5) Queen

  6) Dire Straits / Mark Knopfler

  7) Genesis

  8) The Waterboys / Mike Scott

  9) Mike Oldfield

  10) U2

  Muse, Billy Joel, Simple Minds, Yes, Triumvirat, Pet Shop Boys ... The list would go on...

  Eden
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  36

  Site issues: Dec 27 Update

  by Simon in

  1. forum
  2. announcements

  here's the current status:.

  performance improvements have been made to make things slicker.. the "remember me" issue should now be fixed.. sign-in captcha can be affected by ad-blockers so consider disabling those.. sign-in email is case-sensitive - until i update this consider using your forum username instead.. ie stalls on "queued for processing" when posting a topic or reply but the post has been made (just navigate to active or refresh the topic if replying).. i will be working through issues today and contacting anyone who had sign-in issues to check if they still have problems.. many thanks again for your patience while we work through these teething problems..

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  EdenOne

  Just reporting that on IOS (IPAD) the same issue with 'queued for processing' also happens, albeit the post has been made indeed, as a refreshing will show.

  Edited: Well, not anymore, as this post just showed. Problem fixed. Thank you Simon!

  Eden
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  15

  JW.ORG TRAFFIC WORTH

  by @ROOT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i looked up the estimated revenue of jw.org using http://www.siteworthtraffic.com/ and was shocked at the results.

  not only are they saving money on printing psychical books/magazines, but they're also making a tidy sum romtheir "free" website created and maintained by volunteers.

  i spoke with a jw recently who was very proud to tell me just how good their website was and that they provided it free of charge.

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  EdenOne

  I take it that "worth" refers to POTENTIAL gains IF there were ads in it. I could be wrong though...

  Eden
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  7

  Building Your Own Rudder

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some thoughts on meaning, human nature, and the initial difficulties of learning ttatt.. .

  it's not just the fear of the wild, the untamed, or the untraversed regions of the mind that drives jws to seek shelter in the dim and dark citadels of their ignorance - seemingly protected from the insoluble mysteries of their universe.

  but it's also the fact that the winds of reality can, at times, be cold and harsh and can rain storm and thunder upon everything they thought they knew.

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  EdenOne

  I feel that two forces are at play here:

  FEAR is the ultimate driving force behind every person's adherence to an organized religious belief system. Deep down inside we fear death, chaos, insignificance, solitude, suffering, and our personal weaknesses. Various organized belief systems in supernatural beings offer comfort answers to these fears; sometimes, paradoxically, by exacerbating those fears. 

  GUILT is the other force. It operates similar to marketing: First, create a need where there wasn't one; then, offer the product/service to satisfy that need. Take, for example, Christianity. By telling people they are hopeless sinners, Christian religions create a need for redemption in the eyes of the divinity. Once that need has been created inside people's minds, religions offer 'products' [Christ's ransom, for example] and 'services' [mass] performed by specialized agents [clerigy], in order to address the guilt of being a sinner. Guilt is exploited further by tying it with fear, as a system of reward / punishment is established to ensure that the believer is kept inside the flock [heaven vs. hell ; eternal life in paradise vs. eternal anihilation].

  Eden
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  114

  What is truth?

  by Heisenberg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.

  i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.

  they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.

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  EdenOne

  You know, looking back, even though some rather caustic comments were squared at me by Cofty, Cantleave, Entirely Possible, Adamah, Focus and others, it turned out to be for the best. Once the dust of outraged indignation settled, I could quietly go back and ponder on them. I wish to say to you guys, thank you for challenging me. It has helped me to develop my own critical thinking skills and re-evaluate my entire belief system, even the one that I temporarily attempted to develop. Also, a fond mention of Leolaia, Blondie, Barbara Anderson, JGnat, Terry and Marvin Shilmer. We never had much exchange, but your posts have been of enormous value to me. Thank you.

  I still don't know where this trip will ultimately lead into - if anywhere - but I sure know damn well where I never want to go back to. We may never agree on certain things, but at least we agree that we have been deceived, abused, exploited and cheated on by this religion who turned us into religious addicts for life. I suspect that, even when we leave it all behind, a stain will always lurk in the dephts of us, ready to lure us back. That is something that, like someone who has overcome substance abuse, we will always have to keep under check. But in the meantime, to you all, my deepest respect and thank yous.

  Eden
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  22

  UNDERSTANDING WHY THE ORGANIZATION is a false idol and a BLASPHEMY

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do we understand these three words: worship, idolatry, and blasphemy?.

  most christians have a vague notion of worship, idolatry, and blasphemy already, but.

  a clear definition is necessary.. we must take care to differentiate, however.. how the words appear in original language and how they are defined today might be at odds.. ____________________.

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  EdenOne

  Marked
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  75

  New forum 'parousia' is upon us! (software version)

  by Simon in

  1. forum
  2. announcements

  the time has nearly come to switch over to the new forum software.

  of course it's not completely finished yet (and never will be) but i think it's good enough to go live with and probably already better than the current one.

  i'll give you a quick overview of what to expect and post more detail about the changeover process later.. cloud platform.

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  EdenOne

  Simon, let me ask this (I haven't tried it yet, but it came to my mind):

  Is it possible to search something like this:

  "Threads where I posted + and xxxuserxxx also posted + on 2014"; or "threads that I have started + xxxuserxxx participated + keyword XYZ"

  (sorry, not a programmer, but I think you understand what i mean)

  Eden
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  54

  How do you overcome this JW excuse?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

  eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

  how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

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  EdenOne

  I suppose the logical conclusion of this Elder's logic is something like this: 'Don't run ahead of Jehovah's organizational chariot, for, even if you happen to correctly antecipate the next future move, at present time you are wrong and God's organization is right.'

  You can't win, ever.

  Eden
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  114

  What is truth?

  by Heisenberg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.

  i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.

  they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Heisenberg, I was once a carbon copy of you. Nearly a born-in, Elder, delivered parts in Assemblies, etc. I was utterly convinced that I belonged to the uniquely special people who had the truth about God and his exclusive aproval. I've lead a moral life. I snubbed 'wordly people' and believers of other religions. I could debunk every 'false teaching' using the Bible alone and had all JW chronology in my head. I led others into baptism as JW's. I never made friends outside the religion. I thought apostates were but fools and weaklings. I believed Armaggedon was around the corner, and I really cherished the prospect of living forever in an earthly paradise. I even thought that, even if the JWs had the prophecies all wrong, living the JW way of life was still the best life you could lead.

  This religion took about four decades of my life. I recognize now that this religion deliberatedly caused my ability to think critically to be seriously rudimentary, incipient enough to be useless in seeing through the doctrinal lies, deceptions, and obfuscations promoted by the leadership of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm still learning to use my critical thinking, well into my 40's, and feel ashamed it took me so long to wake up from my coma. Like most ex-JW's the more I distance myself from JW-land, the more I see the absurdity of it all, especially the doctrinal framework that pervades every aspect of the life within the Organization and how it is used to control the individual Witnesses and erase them as individuals, making them mere cloned parts of a massive, Orwellian society.

  Our ill-feelings usually aren't directed at the rank & file Witnesses; for the most part they tend to be really nice people who try their best to live up to what they believe to be 'Godly Standards'. We get frustrated because they, like most of us once, act as douchebags simply because they've been indoctrinated to believe they're special and above the rest of mankind. But then we remember that most of them don't know any better, they don't know how to be any other way. They are like a tree that grew up twisted and deformed by the wind.

  However, the leadership, the Governing Body and those up in the organizational ladder don't deserve any kind words. They ought to know better and they actually know better. They know what they're doing. Whether they have become 'prisioners of a concept', or simply cogniscent conmen, these men deserve to be considered criminals, harshly criticized and opposed. They directly impact the lives of millions, and with that comes great responsability. They must be accountable and their actions thoroughly exposed. They don't deserve special reverence just because they claim to be "brothers of Christ", when their actions indicate otherwise. Sure, this also applies to many other religious leaders, but this forum is about the Jehovah's Witnesses, as I'm sure there are other forums about other religions. We gather here because this is our common background and we discuss what we have been through.

  That said, welcome to this forum.

  Eden