10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.
12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.
15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.
Cofty, there's something that your excellent essay left out and I'd like to hear your take on it.
How do you explain the seemingly redundant command in Acts to 'abstain from blood' and then 'abstain from strangled meat'? Why the author of Acts [or the apostles and elders in Jerusalem] felt it was necessary to make BOTH items as separate commands, when, in principle, 'abstain from blood' would already rule out unbled meat?
Your thoughts?
Eden
well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.
i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.
they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.
Heisenberg, you wrote this reply:
Why is the issue of shunning a problem? If the bible was very clear about who should be shunned and how this should be done, would that be more acceptable to you? Human society has always shunned people that do not conform to the rules. If you commit a crime, you may be punished by being sent to jail and excluded from society until you 'repent' by changing your attitude. Who determines these rules? In many lands, adultery and homosexuality are still punishable by death or jail. It is up to each group of people to decide the rules and the consequences for breaking them. Wasn't the great schism of the Catholic church an act of shunning?
You [as most JWs also] seem to think that disfellowshipping and shunning are one and the same thing. Very few ex-JWs argue that is wrongful that the congregation is entitled to terminate fellowship with those who refuse to comply with the rules, moral or doctrinal. However, shunning is another matter. Even the Bible doesn't support shunning as it's prescribed and imposed by the Governing Body upon the Witnesses. The historical context of the Christian communities in the first and second centuries is very important to give a proper understanding of what the apostles Paul and John meant when they discussed how should Christians deal with transgressors and dissenters. Of course, that historical research doesn't interest the Governing Body at all, because it would uncover serious theological implications that colide with the teachings from the Society since the 1930's; it would besides reveal just how removed the contemporary meetings are from the Christian gatherings originally. Because when you understand how these gatherings worked, then it becomes clear what Paul and John were talking about, and it wasn't surely the shunning as taught by the WTS.
Eden
mr. flipper here again gang!
so who do ya like all time?mr.
flippers list is as follows, almost in this way.
1) Pink Floyd
2) The Beatles / Paul McCartney
3) Vangelis
4) Jean-Michel Jarre
5) Queen
6) Dire Straits / Mark Knopfler
7) Genesis
8) The Waterboys / Mike Scott
9) Mike Oldfield
10) U2
Muse, Billy Joel, Simple Minds, Yes, Triumvirat, Pet Shop Boys ... The list would go on...
Eden
here's the current status:.
performance improvements have been made to make things slicker.. the "remember me" issue should now be fixed.. sign-in captcha can be affected by ad-blockers so consider disabling those.. sign-in email is case-sensitive - until i update this consider using your forum username instead.. ie stalls on "queued for processing" when posting a topic or reply but the post has been made (just navigate to active or refresh the topic if replying).. i will be working through issues today and contacting anyone who had sign-in issues to check if they still have problems.. many thanks again for your patience while we work through these teething problems..
i looked up the estimated revenue of jw.org using http://www.siteworthtraffic.com/ and was shocked at the results.
not only are they saving money on printing psychical books/magazines, but they're also making a tidy sum romtheir "free" website created and maintained by volunteers.
i spoke with a jw recently who was very proud to tell me just how good their website was and that they provided it free of charge.
I take it that "worth" refers to POTENTIAL gains IF there were ads in it. I could be wrong though...
Eden
some thoughts on meaning, human nature, and the initial difficulties of learning ttatt.. .
it's not just the fear of the wild, the untamed, or the untraversed regions of the mind that drives jws to seek shelter in the dim and dark citadels of their ignorance - seemingly protected from the insoluble mysteries of their universe.
but it's also the fact that the winds of reality can, at times, be cold and harsh and can rain storm and thunder upon everything they thought they knew.
I feel that two forces are at play here:
FEAR is the ultimate driving force behind every person's adherence to an organized religious belief system. Deep down inside we fear death, chaos, insignificance, solitude, suffering, and our personal weaknesses. Various organized belief systems in supernatural beings offer comfort answers to these fears; sometimes, paradoxically, by exacerbating those fears.
GUILT is the other force. It operates similar to marketing: First, create a need where there wasn't one; then, offer the product/service to satisfy that need. Take, for example, Christianity. By telling people they are hopeless sinners, Christian religions create a need for redemption in the eyes of the divinity. Once that need has been created inside people's minds, religions offer 'products' [Christ's ransom, for example] and 'services' [mass] performed by specialized agents [clerigy], in order to address the guilt of being a sinner. Guilt is exploited further by tying it with fear, as a system of reward / punishment is established to ensure that the believer is kept inside the flock [heaven vs. hell ; eternal life in paradise vs. eternal anihilation].
Eden
well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.
i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.
they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.
You know, looking back, even though some rather caustic comments were squared at me by Cofty, Cantleave, Entirely Possible, Adamah, Focus and others, it turned out to be for the best. Once the dust of outraged indignation settled, I could quietly go back and ponder on them. I wish to say to you guys, thank you for challenging me. It has helped me to develop my own critical thinking skills and re-evaluate my entire belief system, even the one that I temporarily attempted to develop. Also, a fond mention of Leolaia, Blondie, Barbara Anderson, JGnat, Terry and Marvin Shilmer. We never had much exchange, but your posts have been of enormous value to me. Thank you.
I still don't know where this trip will ultimately lead into - if anywhere - but I sure know damn well where I never want to go back to. We may never agree on certain things, but at least we agree that we have been deceived, abused, exploited and cheated on by this religion who turned us into religious addicts for life. I suspect that, even when we leave it all behind, a stain will always lurk in the dephts of us, ready to lure us back. That is something that, like someone who has overcome substance abuse, we will always have to keep under check. But in the meantime, to you all, my deepest respect and thank yous.
Eden
do we understand these three words: worship, idolatry, and blasphemy?.
most christians have a vague notion of worship, idolatry, and blasphemy already, but.
a clear definition is necessary.. we must take care to differentiate, however.. how the words appear in original language and how they are defined today might be at odds.. ____________________.
Marked
the time has nearly come to switch over to the new forum software.
of course it's not completely finished yet (and never will be) but i think it's good enough to go live with and probably already better than the current one.
i'll give you a quick overview of what to expect and post more detail about the changeover process later.. cloud platform.
Simon, let me ask this (I haven't tried it yet, but it came to my mind):
Is it possible to search something like this:
"Threads where I posted + and xxxuserxxx also posted + on 2014"; or "threads that I have started + xxxuserxxx participated + keyword XYZ"
(sorry, not a programmer, but I think you understand what i mean)
Eden
during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.
eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?
how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".
I suppose the logical conclusion of this Elder's logic is something like this: 'Don't run ahead of Jehovah's organizational chariot, for, even if you happen to correctly antecipate the next future move, at present time you are wrong and God's organization is right.'
You can't win, ever.
Eden
