Thank you for
clarifying.
What do you mean in saying this:
that is, an invisible presence that only a few know about,
johnamos
JoinedPosts by johnamos
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johnamos
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johnamos
But I would say that "presence" much better encapsulates what the WT teaches about Jesus' parousia, that is, an invisible presence that only a few know about,
Hmm...I am surprise to here you say that. Maybe I am misunderstanding you but are you saying his 'presence' and 'coming' are two different events?
That is not how I understand it and that is they may be two different words being used but they are referring to the same event/time.
Starting with this verse that uses the word 'presence', this is the way I view it:
[However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him,]
There it connects their being gathered together to him at the time of his 'presence'. Matt 24:31 shows when it is that they are gathered together to him, which is at the time of his 'coming' as shown in verse 30.
[30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.]
Likewise:
[15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord.]
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New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's
by Sea Breeze in5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.
9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.
21:12, 17;] jn.
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johnamos
Also perfectly clear is that Jesus possesses "all power in heaven and earth" - Mt. 28: 18
I suppose anything can seem (perfectly) clear to a person that only wants to see something how they want to see it.
You seem to have left off a (perfectly) CLEAR detail:
[When Jesus came near, he spoke to them. He said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.]
[Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this CLEARLY does not include the One who put everything under Him. And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.]
Also, equally clear is that Jesus said he would resurrect himself while he was dead. - John 10:18
If Jesus 'resurrected himself' then does that mean he killed himself?
[No one is taking it from me; I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This is what my Father has commanded me."]
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johnamos
Bobcat, in the same manner of discussing 'steward' vs. 'slave', what are your thoughts in the use of 'coming' (erchomai) vs. 'presence' (parousia)?
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Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.
by joe134cd infirstly i appreciate the work mark o’donnell does for the xjw community.
no doubt this has also been discussed numerous times before.
but with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen in that vice documentary.
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johnamos
Yes...that would be like someone that has a laptop with child porn on it and it being stolen...I would not think the owner of the laptop would want to make such a big deal about it being stolen...
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Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.
by joe134cd infirstly i appreciate the work mark o’donnell does for the xjw community.
no doubt this has also been discussed numerous times before.
but with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen in that vice documentary.
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johnamos
I didn't steal any documents. As you posted, I "received" stolen documents.
He never said you stole them, he said you received them, just as you state yourself.
Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.
But with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen
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johnamos
what was the last thing Lot said to his wife?
who's behind us...
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Why is there a large cat in this picture?
by slimboyfat ini wonder if anyone can explain this.
ezekiel 34:25 says .
and i will make a covenant of peace with them, and i will rid the land of vicious wild beasts, so that they may dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the forests.. the land is said to be rid of vicious wild beasts, so why does the watchtower picture in the new pure worship book show a large predatory cat on the tree in this picture?
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johnamos
‘“And I will make a covenant of peace with them, and I will rid the land of vicious wild beasts..
‘“And I will conclude with them a covenant of peace, and I shall certainly cause the injurious wild beast to cease out of the land,..
First off, as far as what the Scripture states and what the WTS artist painted, their is no basis to paint this cat in the tree. The Scripture states that Jehovah will rid/cause to cease the wild beasts from out of the land. So that cat (wild beast) should not even be depicted in the picture.
Second, that context of that verse is not talking about actual animals as being the wild beasts, it is referring to men, the evil shepherds that do harm, that they will no longer be there. (be gotten rid of/cease from out of the land)
Lookup — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY (jw.org)
Likewise:
Isaiah 35:8 And a highway will be there, Yes, a way called the Way of Holiness. The unclean one will not travel on it. It is reserved for the one walking on the way; No one foolish will stray onto it. 9 No lion will be there, And no vicious wild beasts will come on it. They will not be found there; Only the repurchased ones will walk there.
(Matthew) Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.
(Acts) I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you
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Splane's "Apostate" talk transcript
by FFGhost infor any who can't (like me) muster the masochism necessary to sit through an 18-or-so hour commentary on a 30 minute talk from a certain famous/infamous commentator, here is a link to a transcript from splane's saturday afternoon "apostate" talk:.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/ot7z2e/splanes_apostate_rant_transcription/.
there are many topics worthy of consideration, but this particular section really stood out to me:.
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johnamos
negative talk and criticism
When they say negative talk and criticism they actually mean anyone that points out that one of their (WTS/GB) teachings are incorrect. I have personally in the past week just asked a pimi husband and wife if they could explain to me about the teaching of the WTS stating that the 70 years are from 607- 537.
I said , I am willing to accept that 537 is the 70th year, I just needed to know something first since we are told to make sure of all things before accepting as true. I asked if 537 is the 70th year then that would mean that 539 is the 68th year and according to the WTS, Jehovah called Babylon to account in 539 and according to the Bible Jehovah said he was going to call Babylon to account when 70 years have been fulfilled.
I simply asked based on that did Jehovah call Babylon to account when 70 years were fulfilled as he said he would or did he jump ahead of his own timetable by two years and call them to account when 68 years were fulfilled?
I went on to show the following:
[11-15-98 WT – We know that Jehovah is the Great Timekeeper, and we have confidence that he never fails to fulfill his purposes at his appointed time.]
[Jeremiah 25: 11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and THESE NATIONS will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’ 12 ‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah,]
[8-1-81 WT p. 27-28 – “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]
And I kid you not, this is part of the reply I got for asking that:
I do not wish to receive any more questions from you because I don’t feel they are really questions.. It may not be how you intend it but your questions to me seem more like negative accusations of incorrect teachings.
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Splane's "Apostate" talk transcript
by FFGhost infor any who can't (like me) muster the masochism necessary to sit through an 18-or-so hour commentary on a 30 minute talk from a certain famous/infamous commentator, here is a link to a transcript from splane's saturday afternoon "apostate" talk:.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/ot7z2e/splanes_apostate_rant_transcription/.
there are many topics worthy of consideration, but this particular section really stood out to me:.
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johnamos
They often pose as sincere Witnesses who just have questions or concerns. And some who aren’t really apostates can cause just as much trouble as the apostates do by their negative talk and criticism. - David Splane
[12-15-96 WT - In one Christian family, the parents stimulate open communication by encouraging their children to ask questions about things that they do not understand or that cause concern.]
[6-1-00 WT - Encourage the student to ask questions and to tell you when he does not fully understand some point.—Mark 4:10; 9:32, 33.]
They supposedly encourage their children and students to do exactly what they really don't want them to actually do.