let's say that one believes jesus was god's son, and that he was perfect, etc.. well, what about this: what if you don't agree with jesus, or god on many things.. i have never thought about that before.
what is your take?
G'day Eyebrow,
Jesus divinity and 'perfection' was a late addition to christian faith (a bloke could write a book) but that aside, if you don't agree with Jesus, God and all his Angels and angles, the same thing will happen to you as happens when a drunken Viking stands under a star filled sky and curses God, his mother and son with every vile blasphemy known to Christendom.
... nuth'n
So Stephanus, you're 38 eh?
Why you been acting yer shoe size then? ... hehehe This party on Saturday .. oo can I come? We could insult each other face to face at last .. only joking .. i won't cook up any snags lol.
cheers, unc.
Hey Prisca, nothing to wear? ... wear nothing! hehehe
starting tomorrow the only way to have access to the viewing platforms that were built in order to let visitors have a "closer" look at the ruins at gz is by obtaining a "pass" being handed out every day early in the morning.. this to accomadate the large crowds and demands to view the ruins.. if you dont get a pass to be able to go up the 13ft.platform which can accomadate about 400 people at a time, then you have to view the ruins from the perimeter established.. i wanted to post this info.
in order to keep showing everyone that the wt boasts of having jws walking "around the debris" talking to others about the "truth" is a lie.. as you can see the closest that you can get is only through one of the viewing platforms-and now only with a pass.. and no freddy, i'm not talking about standing next to the bank and streching out your neck as far up as you can.. mav.-
Greetings Patriot,
Does anyone here have a link to the original claim by the WBTS that started this? I am also interested in hearing from anyone with links to people working at Watchtower HQ on Sept 11. Many folk here know people who were working in Bethel at the time or visiting for the Gilead graduation.
What was it like having a massive destructive event like that just a few blocks away from doom and gloom HQ? What was it like looking out of the window and seeing a thing like that? What was the mood in Bethel? I have heard of some panic .. quite strange when it's us wordly folk who are depicted in countless watchtower images as the ones going mad in an apocalyptic crisis.
unclebruce
good day all.
a few serious questions.
topics are chosen only to make the answers quick and easy.
Would you be disfellowshipped as an apostate from the WT TODAY, if you believed and taught the Society's doctrines of 1920? (after the inspection)
NO (I am a walkaway so i can teach Jehovah polishes my orphans and cleans my widows with no repercussions)
Would a JW of 1920 have been disfellowshipped if he then believed and taught present-day WT doctrines?Were there JW's in 1920? Was there dismemberment?
Would a JW living in 1913 have been disfellowshipped from the WT if he believed and taught that 1914 was NOT going to be the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty" or Armagedon as the Society was then saying (StinScrip, VolII, The Time Is At Hand, 1908 ed. pg 101, 171 & 245)?Sounds more like retoric than a question. Did Russell disfellowship folks?
Is it right to be disfellowshipped and treated as an apostate for believing and teaching the TRUTH?YES, it's tradition, should be much more of it, dismember all 6 million of 'em and treat them with a posphate I say!
Since the WT's doctrines and practices are continually changing, would you say that thousands of JWs in the past were NOT "in the truth" according to present-day WT teachings, as they confessed?NO (they couldn't read the bible so good but the light's brighter now.)
Have thousands of JWs died believing and teaching WT "errors", according to present-day WT teachings?YES
Did you know that CT Russell taught the resurrected Jesus is "Almighty" based on his conclusion of Matt 28:18 (The Finished Mystery pg 15)?Volume no.?
According to Matt 28:18, is it the Father or the Son who as "ALL authority" in HEAVEN and on earth?pass (no bible within cooee of here)
As a JW are you allowed to worship the one with "ALL authority" in HEAVEN and on earth?YES
What is more important? Loyalty the the Truth or loyalty to the TruthTM?Can one be loyal to a concept?
Can you distinguish between the Two?YES, one's spelt with a tm after it.
Looking forward to some honest answers.NO
===
Did I get some right?
unclebruce, form filler outer
c. t. russell had been critical of those who had set various dates for the lords return, such as william miller and some second adventist groups.
*** jv 61-3 6 a time of testing (1914-1918) ***.
the years from 1914 to 1918 did, indeed, prove to be a testing season for the bible students.
More direct quotes:
1975 -"' .. To give aid today in this critical time to prospective sons of God,' announced President Knorr, 'a new book in English, entitled 'Life Everlasting - in Freedom of the Sons of God,' has been published.' .. It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. 'The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed,' .. THE YEAR 1975 .. 6,000 years of human experience will end in 1975, about nine years from now. What does that mean? Does it mean that God's rest day began 4026 B.C.E.? It could have. The Life Everlasting book does not say it did not.. 'What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?' asked Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah's witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that." {WT Oct 15 1966 628-31}
1975 - "Today, there are many teenage baptized servants of Jehovah.. how far should they go with a secular education? It would hardly be consistent for such a youth, of his own choice, to pursue extensive secular studies beyond what is required by the law and by his parents.. additional years of college education may present snares." {WT Sep 1 1975 543}
1975 - "'How Much Longer Will It Be?' 6,000 Years Completed in 1975 .. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975.. Hence, the fact that we are nearing the end of the first 6,000 years of man's existence is of great significance. Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. From the most reliable investigations of Bible chronology, harmonizing with many accepted dates of secular history, we find that Adam was created in the autumn of the year 4026 B.C.E. Sometime in that same year Eve could well have been created, directly after which God's rest day commenced .. There is another chronological indication that we are rapidly nearing the closing time for this wicked system of things. It is the fact that shortly, according to reliable Bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will come to an end.. After six thousand years of toil and bondage to sin, sickness, death and Satan, mankind is due to enjoy a rest and is in dire need of a rest. (Heb. 4:1-11) Hence, the fact that we are nearing the end of the first 6,000 years of man's existence is of great significance.. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975. This is worthy of notice, particularly in view of the fact that the 'last days' began in 1914, and that the physical facts of our day in fulfillment of prophecy mark this as the last generation of this wicked world. So we can expect the immediate future to be filled with thrilling events for those who rest their faith in God and his promises. It means that within relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the 'time of the end.'" {AWAK Oct 8 1966 19-20}
1975 - "6,000 Years Nearing Completion .. The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the 'last days' have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God. Today, many years later, we may ask, What does the phrase 'the immediate future' mean? How many years are 'a few years at most'? .. According to reliable Bible chronology, Adam and Eve were created in 4026 B.C.E.. There is another way that helps confirm the fact that we are living in the final few years of this 'time of the end.' (Dan. 12:9) The Bible shows that we are nearing the end of a full 6,000 years of human history. What significance does this have? When God gave his laws to ancient Israel, one of those laws involved keeping the sabbath day holy. On the seventh day of the week there was to be no labor. The people were to rest from all their toil. (Ex 20:8-11) The Bible states that 'the Law has a shadow of the good things to come.' - Heb. 10:1. Revelation chapter 20, verse 6, shows that God's heavenly kingdom will rule over the earth for one thousand years after the end of this system of things. That millennium will bring a sabbathlike rest to the earth and all those then inhabiting it. Hence, the first six thousand years since man's creation could be likened to the first six days of the week in ancient Israel. The seventh one-thousand-year period could be likened to the seventh day, the sabbath, of that week. - 2 Pet. 3:8. How fitting it would be for God, following this pattern, to end man's misery after six thousand years of human rule and follow it with His glorious Kingdom rule for a thousand years! .. only seven more years from the autumn of 1968 to complete 6,000 full years of human history. That seven-year period will evidently finish in the autumn of the year 1975.. Concerning political instability, former U.S. Secretary of State Dean Acheson said in 1960: 'I know enough of what is going on to assure you that, in 15 years from today (or, by 1975), this world is going to be too dangerous to live in.' .. [Chart] 1975 C.E. END OF 6,000 YEARS .. In the book Famine - 1975! food experts W. and P. Paddock state: .. 'I forecast a specific date, 1975, when the new crisis will be upon us in all its awesome importance.'" {AWAK Oct 8 1968 14-5}
1975 - "Would there be another creative 'day,' a seventh 'day,' at the close of the 'morning' of which the whole earth would be populated with a human family and be a global Paradise? 'Evening' of seventh creative 'day' begins, 4026 B.C.E." {GEPT 51} [4026 B.C.E. + 6000 years to take to start of the seventh day = 1975]
1975 - "The time is fast drawing near for the reality that was foreshadowed by the Jubilee of liberty to be proclaimed throughout the earth to all mankind.. Most certainly the near future would be the most appropriate time for it. God's own written Word indicates that it is the appointed time for it.. In this twentieth century an independent study has been carried on that does not blindly follow some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, and the published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation.. Since the time of Ussher intensive study of Bible chronology has been carried on. In this twentieth century an independent study has been carried on that does not blindly follow some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, and the published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation. Jehovah God is timeless, as it is written in Psalm 90:1, 2: "O Jehovah, you yourself have proved to be a real dwelling for us during generation after generation. Before the mountains themselves were born, or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land, even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God." So from the standpoint of Jehovah God these passing six thousand years of man's existence are but as six days of twenty-four hours, for this same psalm (verses 3, 4) goes on to say: "You make mortal man go back to crushed matter, and you say: `Go back, you sons of men.' For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night." So in not many years within our own generation we are reaching what Jehovah God could view as the seventh day of man's existence. How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath for the proclaiming of liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants! This would be most timely for mankind. It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ. Prophetically Jesus Christ, when on earth nineteen centuries ago, said concerning himself: "For Lord of the sabbath is what the Son of man is." (Matthew 12: 8). It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God for the reign of Jesus Christ, the 'Lord of the Sabbath,' to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man's existence." {LEIF 26-30} [Omitted from CD93 & CD95!]
1975 - "1975 - 6000 End of 6th 1,000-year day of man's existence (in early autumn)" {LEIF 35}
1975 - "More recently earnest researchers of the Holy Bible have made a recheck of its chronology. According to their calculations the six millenniums of mankind's life on earth would end in the mid-seventies. Thus the seventh millennium from mans creation by Jehovah god would begin within less than ten years. Apart from the global change that present-day world condition indicate is fast getting near, the arrival of the seventh millennium of mans existence on earth suggests a gladsome change for war-stricken humankind.. In order for the Lord Jesus Christ to be Lord even of the Sabbath day, his thousand-year reign would have to be the seventh in a series of thousand-year periods or millenniums. (Matt 12:8, AV) Thus it would be a sabbatic reign. Since early in the existence of mankind Satan the Devil has been on the loose, making the human family to toil in hard bondage, causing the earth to be filled with violence before the global flood of Noahs day and inducing the same old earth to be filled with even greater violence today. Soon now six millenniums of his wicked exploiting of mankind as his slaves will end, within the lifetime of the generation that has witnessed world events since the close of the gentile times in 1914 till now, according to the prophetic words of Jesus in Matthew 24:34. Would not, then, the end of six millenniums of mankind's laborious enslavement under Satan the Devil be the fitting time for Jehovah God to usher in a Sabbath millennium for all his human creatures? Yes, indeed! And his King Jesus Christ will be Lord of that Sabbath." {WT Oct 15 1969 622-3, APTY 25-6}
1975 - "In order for the Lord Jesus Christ to be 'Lord even of the sabbath day,' his thousand-year reign would have to be the seventh in a series of thousand-year periods or millenniums. (Matt. 12:8, AV) Thus it would be a sabbatic reign. Since early in the existence of mankind Satan the Devil has been on the loose, making the human family to toil in hard bondage, causing the earth to be filled with violence before the global flood of Noah's day and inducing the same old earth to be filled with even greater violence today. Soon now six millenniums of his wicked exploiting of mankind as his slaves will end, within the lifetime of the generation that has witnessed world events since the close of the Gentile Times in 1914 till now, according to the prophetic words of Jesus in Matthew 24:34. Would not, then, the end of six millenniums of mankind's laborious enslavement under Satan the Devil be the fitting time for Jehovah God to usher in a Sabbath millennium for all his human creatures? Yes, indeed!" {WT Oct 15 1969 623, APTY 26-7}
1975 - "Interestingly, the autumn of the year 1975 marks the end of 6,000 years of human experience. This is ascertainable from reliable chronology preserved in the Bible itself. What will that year mean for humankind? Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jesus Christ? It very well could, but we will have to wait to see.. A glorious new order is immediately before us." {WT May 1 1967 262}
1975 - "According to reliable Bible chronology Adam was created in the year 4026 B.C.E., likely in the autumn of the year, at the end of the sixth day of creation. Then God brought the animals to man to name. Yet, of Adam, Genesis states these words of Jehovah: 'It is not good for the man to continue by himself.' (Gen. 2:18) Adam would realize this lonely condition very quickly, perhaps in just a few days or a few weeks. He would realize he needed another earthling with whom he could communicate, share his experiences, and his life. Nor would his naming the animals take an unduly long time. The basic animal kinds could have been relatively quickly named, for when such basic kinds were taken into the ark in Noah's day, it did not involve millions of beasts, but perhaps only a few hundred basic kinds. Thus Adam's naming of the animals and his realizing that he needed a counterpart would have occupied only a brief time after his creation. Since it was also Jehovah's purpose for man to multiply and fill the earth, it is logical that he would create Eve soon after Adam, perhaps just a few weeks or months later in the same year, 4026 B.C.E. After her creation, God's rest day, the seventh period, immediately followed.. Eight years from the Autumn of 1967 would bring us to the Autumn of 1975, fully 6,000 years into God's seventh day, his rest day.. The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these 'last days' will undergo fulfillment, resulting in the liberation of surviving mankind into Christ's glorious 1,000-year reign. What difficult days, but, at the same time, what grand days are just ahead!" {WT May 1 1968 271-2}
1975 - "Of what significance is this today? It means that by the fall of 1963 mankind has dwelt upon this earth 5,988 years. Does this mean, then, that by 1963 we had progressed 5,988 years into the 'day' on which Jehovah 'has been resting from all his work'? (Gen. 2:3) No, for the creation of Adam does not correspond with the beginning of Jehovah's rest day. Following Adam's creation, and still within the sixth creative day, Jehovah appears to have been forming further animal and bird creations. Also, he had Adam name the animals, which would take some time, and he proceeded to create Eve. (Gen. 2:18-22; see also NWT, 1953 Ed., footnote on Vs. 19) Whatever time elapsed between Adam's creation and the end of the 'sixth day' must be subtracted from the 5,988 years in order to give the actual length of time from the beginning of the 'seventh day' until now. It does no good to use Bible chronology for speculating on dates that are still future in the stream of time." {ASII 286}
1975 - "'The Book of Truthful Historical Dates' .. Do we know that the seventh year from now will conclude the 6,000th year since Adam was created? And if we live to that year 1975, what should we expect to happen?" {WT Aug 15 1968 488}
1975 - "WHY ARE YOU LOOKING FORWARD TO 1975? .. What about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion.. of what benefit is this information to us today?.. why should we be any more interested in the date of Adam's creation than in the birth of King Tut?.. in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now .. it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam." {WT Aug 15 1968 494}
1975 - "'Adam Created At Close Of 'Sixth Day' .. in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now .. it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam, the father of all mankind! Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the Sabbath-like thousand-year reign of Christ .. Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah's loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man's existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah's seventh creative 'day.' Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the 'sixth day,' which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam's 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or 'day' ended, and how long Adam lived into the 'seventh day.' And yet the end of that sixth creative 'day' could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam's creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.. This time between Adam's creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time.. One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that 'concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.' To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the 'day and hour.' .. There was a ring of alarm and a cry of urgency in all their [the apostles] writings.. Even if one cannot see beyond 1975, is this any reason to be less active? The apostles could not see even this far; they knew nothing about 1975.. And rightly so. If they had delayed or dillydallied and had been complacent with the idea the end was was some thousands of years off they would never have finished running the race set before them." {WT Aug 15 1968 499-501} [In accordance with the Adam/Eve age-difference claims in AID 333/538]
1975 - "It is just as a former United States Secretary of State noted in the June 13, 1960, issue of U.S. News & World Report. He declared that our time is 'a period of unequaled instability, unequaled violence,' and warned: 'I know enough of what is going on to assure you that, in 15 years from today, this world is going to be too dangerous to live in.' Fifteen years from 1960 brings us to 1975. He predicted that by 1975 this world would be too dangerous! Interestingly, this date is also the one indicated by the most reliable Bible research as marking the end of 6,000 years of rebellion of men and demons against God." {AWAK Jan 8 1968 19}
1975 - ".. as reported back in 1960, a former United States Secretary of State, Dean Acheson, declared that our time is 'a period of unequaled instability, unequaled violence.' and he warned: 'I know enough of what is going on to assure you that, in fifteen years from today, this world is going to be too dangerous to live in.'" {TLEL 9} [1960 + 15 = 1975; however TLEL 1981 ed 9 was amended so the words "and he warned: 'I know enough of what is going on to assure you that, in fifteen years from today," disappeared and in their place appeared "Based on what he knew was then going on in the world, it was his conclusion that soon '"]
1975 - "More recently, the book entitled "Famine-1975!" [by W. & P. Paddock, 1967, pp. 52, 55, 61.] said concerning today's food shortages: "Hunger is rampant throughout country after country, continent after continent around the undeveloped belt of the tropics and subtropics. Today's crisis can move in only one direction - toward catastrophe. Today hungry nations; tomorrow starving nations.. By 1975 civil disorder, anarchy, military dictatorships, runaway inflation, transportation breakdowns and chaotic unrest will be the order of the day in many of the hungry nations." {TLEL 88-9} [Elsewhere, the same source is quoted as stating "By 1975 a disaster of unprecedented magnitude will face the world. Famines, greater than any in history, will ravage the undeveloped nations."]
1975 - "Making some special effort to do more than the usual helps us live up to our dedication. In view of the short period of time left, we want to do this as often as circumstances permit. Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed. . Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more." {KMIN Mar 1968 4} [Mar 1968 + 90 months = Oct 1975]
1975 - "The publications of Jehovah's witnesses have shown that, according to Bible chronology, it appears that 6,000 years of man's existence will be completed in the mid-1970's. But these publications have never said that the world's end would come then. Nevertheless, there has been considerable individual speculation on the matter." {WT Oct 15 1974 635}
1975 - ".. millions of people now living will see the 'day' of Christ's coming to mete out justice upon this system of things .." {WT Jan 1 1975 11}
1975 - ".. the Creator's promise of a new order of lasting peace and true security within our generation." {AWAK Jan 8 1975}
1975 - "Another speaker, F. W. Franz, the Society's vice-president, forcefully impressed on the audience the urgency of the Christian preaching work. He stressed that, according to dependable Bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will end this coming September according to the lunar calendar. This coincides with a time when "the human species [is] about to starve itself to death," as well as its being faced with poisoning by pollution and destruction by nuclear weapons. Franz added: 'There's no basis for believing that mankind, faced with what it now faces, can exist for the seventh thousand-year period" under the present system of things.' .. Does this mean that we know exactly when God will destroy this old system and establish a new one? Franz showed that we do not, for we do not know how short was the time interval between Adam's creation and the creation of Eve, at which point God's rest day of seven thousand years began (Heb. 4:3,4). But, he pointed out, 'we should not think that this year of 1975 is of no significance to us,' for the Bible proves that Jehovah is 'the greatest chronologist' and 'we have the anchor date, 1914, marking the end of the Gentile Times.' So, he continued, 'we are filled with anticipation for the near future, for our generation.' {WT May 1 1975 285} [tick tock, four months of 1975 over]
1975 - "However, the Bible's time clock does indicate to us that 6,000 years of human history end in this year 1975.. Does this mean, then, that mankind has now reached 6,000 years into the 7,000 year period that God blessed and made sacred as his rest day? Does it mean that Christ's millennial Kingdom rule, as the final 1,000 years of that 'rest day,' is to be reckoned from September 1975? - Gen. 1:27, 31; 2:2,3; Rev. 20:1-6. No, It does not mean that. Why not? Well, the Bible record shows that God's creations on the 'day' just preceeding that 7,000-year 'rest day' did not end with Adam's creation. It shows a time lapse between the creation of Adam and that of his wife, Eve. During that time, God had Adam name the animals. Whether that period amounted to weeks or months or years, we do not know. So we do not know exactly when Jehovah's great 'rest day' began, nor do we know exactly when it will end. The same applies to the beginning of Christ's millennial reign." {WT Oct 1 1975 579} [Already wriggling to explain away all the predictions re 1975]
1975 - "Just think where we are in the stream of time! Its importance was deeply impressed on our minds back in 1966. God's people then received the absorbing book Life Everlasting - in Freedom of the Sons of God. It did not take long for most of them to note the chronological chart in it that identified 1975 as the "end of 6th 1,000-year day of man's existence (in early autumn)." This certainly raised questions. Does this mean that Babylon the Great will go down by 1975? Will Armageddon be over, with Satan bound, by then? 'It could,' acknowledged F. W. Franz, the Watch Tower Society's vice-president, .. ' .. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short.'" {YEAR 1975 256}
1975 - "However, suddenly, there came an end to World War I. It did not lead on, as Bible students expected, into world revolution and anarchy or the battle of Armageddon. And the sincere worshippers of Jehovah who were in the new covenant with him through his Mediator Jesus Christ, found themselves still in the flesh on the earth." {MSWD 98}
1975 - "'Morning' of seventh creative 'day' begins, 526 B.C.E. The first half or 'evening' period of God's seventh creative 'day' was now closing, 3,500 years from creation of Adam and Eve." {GEPT 131} [so another 2,500 years of the 6,000 would bring us to 1975]
1975 - ".. this marked the beginning of a period of education in the written Word of God from the standpoint that Bible prophecy is best understood after it has been fulfilled. So there needed to be a correction of our previous views, and the surviving remnant of spiritual Israel needed to be readjusted to the postwar realities and opportunities.. This revised program of Bible education had a profound effect on the remnant. It oriented their work in the right direction." {MSWD 191}
1975 - "The bodies of the slain will not molder in honorable burial places. Unburied, their flesh will be picked away clean to the bone, beyond identifying the bare skeletons. Because of the multitude of the slain, it will be a huge feast for the scavengers.. . .So, instead of having their bones eaten clean of all decaying flesh by the maggots at the Valley of Hinnom (or, at Gehenna), the carcasses of the slain enemies at Har-Magedon will, as it were, be eaten clear to the bone by nature's sanitation force, the carrion-eating birds and wild beasts. . . Quite evidently there will be many more bodies strewn over the earth as a result of the war at Har-Magedon than there will be scavenger birds enough to dispose of them all in a reasonable time for human health reasons. So it is reasonable to expect that God will dispose of excess bodies by other means.. . .What a well-deserved, contemptible end for all these opposers of Jehovah and his Messianic kingdom at Har-Magedon!" {MSWD 275-6}
1975 - "Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing in common with other religious groups and can never seek any affiliation with them." {AWAKE Nov 22 1975} [In 1980, the State of California informed Jimmy Swaggart Ministries that tax was due for religious books and tapes sold in the state since 1974. The case was appealed to the United States Supreme Court. On June 22, 1989, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society filed an 'amicus curiae' (friend of the court) brief on behalf of Jimmy Swaggert Ministries (No. 88-1374 in the Supreme Court of the United States, October Term, 1988). Others who acted similarly included the National Council of Churches and the Society for Krishna Consciousness. On January 17, 1990, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled against them them declaring that the sales tax must be paid. 35 days later an official Society letter to (all) congregations failed to mention this but instead claimed set prices for literature items were being eliminated because 'By adopting a method of literature distribution based completely on donation, Jehovah's people are able to greatly simplify our Bible education work and separate ourselves from those who commercialize religion.' There has been rumoured legal collaboration in 1999 with the Church of Scientology in one or more countries of what used to be the Eastern bloc.]
1975 - "Disaster for Fighters Against God's New Order.. The unburied dead, 'those slain by Jehovah,' will be so enormously many that even the carrion birds and scavenging wild beasts could never take care of their consumption. The burial of even what remains after these lower creatures have their fill would be stupendous. Doubtless the Almighty God will use some highly scientific means, whether including antimatter or not, to dispose of the surplus of decaying bodies in a speedy and sanitary way. This remains for the survivors of the 'war of the great day' to see and witness. We remember that Noah and his seven fellow survivors of the global Deluge were not burdened with burying the human victims of that world catastrophe after they came out of the ark and renewed Jehovah's worship on earth.-Genesis 8:18-22.'" {MSWD 276} [And as for 99.9% of mankind just killed, what remorse?]
1975 - "'Choosing the best way of life' .. In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of mans existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, There were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated .. In saying anyone, the Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date." {WT Mar 15 1980 17-8}
1975 - ".. acknowledged the Society's responsibility for some of the disappointment a number felt regarding 1975." {YEAR 1980 30-1}
1975 - "More recently, many Witnesses conjectured that events associated with the beginning of Christ's Millennial Reign might start to take place in 1975. Their anticipation was based on the understanding that the seventh millennium of human history would begin then." {AWAK Jun 22 1995 9}
1975 - [NO MENTION!] {HIS2 Section 'Notable Dates' - Official 1993 version of WTBTS's history of predictions}
1975 - "Following Adam's creation, and still within the sixth creative day, Jehovah appears to have been forming further animal and bird creations. Also, he had Adam name the animals, which would take some time, and he proceeded to create Eve. (Gen. 2:18-22; see also NW, 1953 Ed., footnote on vs. 19) Whatever time elapsed between Adam's creation and the end of the 'sixth day' must be subtracted from the 5,988 years in order to give the actual length of time from the beginning of the 'seventh day' until now." {ASII 286} [1963 + (6000 - less than 5988) = more than 1975, allowing an escape from the 1975 prediction. However, see below {AID 333/538}, also {WT Aug 15 1968 499} - at most, an extra year]
1975-6 - "Adam at age 130 had a son, Seth .. Eve at age 130 had a son, Seth" {AID 333/538} [hence the difference in age between Adam and Eve is shown to be less than one year. So the postponement of the '1975 prediction' claimed in ASII 286 etc. can at most be more one year i.e. to 1976, as also claimed in {WT Aug 15 1968 499}. These previous statements are ignored in {WT Jul 1976 436} when excusing the failure]
my (favorite)uncle(bud) was shot eight times at almost point blank range by the pennsylvania highway patrol officers.. he is my uncle from my fathers side there were four brothers alive when i was young, and ever single one seem to be fearless.. they did pretty much as they pleased and got away with alot.
none of them to my recollection seem to fear death(at least never showed it).. i remember picking out buckshot from my father's hand that my uncle bud(as we called him his real name was the same as my grandfather elmer).. my uncle roger was in the rodeo and was also a blacksmith.
one time he lassoed my cousin and myself when he was drunk and gave us rope burns around our neck.
Why thankyou Bro.Wiltshire,
This makes fer very interest'n read'n if'n I do say so m'self. Please continue. You've got a mighty likable style.
unclebruce who had a few '71 fords
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i started this new thread as you requested.
we were discussing the various dates of armageddon, predicted by the wt.......ill start with your quote:.
the brothers were not predicting, but trying to understand bible chronology and prophesy.
It's all very simple,
With the delusion "we are living in the last Days" proved a bare faced lie, the Watchtowers reason to exist has evaporated, exposing the fascile, bastardized, pre-packaged Brooklyn enlightenment as the fraud it's always been.
unclebruce
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toribabe - Happy New Year
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on national public radio, they have an astronomy program called.
"earth and sky".
this morning they covered the question of.
all the grains of sand on earth or all the stars
in the universe. The best estimate is that the number of stars is larger by far.
Larger by far eh? Thanks Metatron,
I ponder about this everytime I veg out on the beach, it's mind blowing.
Isn't it interesting how God got further away as the universe expanded. In Eden he was right there in the windy part of the day. By Abraham's time he'd taken to living in a burning bush, Moses had to climb a mountain to speak with him and by the time his son was born he only visited to impregnate virgins ... moving right along, in Paster Russell's day Jehovah lived way out in the Pleides and now he's beyond our wildest dreams ;)
good morning ladonna,.
as you may recall we had a brief exchange yesterday.
you asked a few indignant questions regarding my whipping post and then follwed them up with inquiries as to why i am posting here having never been a jw, or something to that effect.
Careful Julie,
Ladonna had me head down and arse up in the chatroom, covering my trouser snake with hot wax and striping away my manhood quicker than a bloke could cry farkel. I'm just saying watch your bum fluff Julie she's a wild one
Oh look these folk are in chat right now: logical, Geordie, Sky, Julie, Tina, ladonna, Lilacs, Scully, gravedancer & funkyderek
I guess they're all hugging each other and talking sex again .. oo should I join 'em? .. they could be having an almighty bitch fight .. geez, if only i wasn't so tired already .. (unc sleep typing out loud again)
yesterday evening i journeyed into darkest somerset to give a prospective client a quotation for a fitted bedroom.
i juiced up at tesco's and zoomed off towards rural badgeworth.
while i was drawing up my designs with my customer, my mobile phone burst into life, playing "the sting" theme, which meant that this was an uknown caller to me.
Why do English coppers yell out oi! Short for oink?
