undercover

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Posts by undercover

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  117

  Is It Possible To Reason With A Typical Jehovah's Witness?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from what i can see, it's nearly impossible to reason with a witness, even if you might consider them somewhat intelligent.

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  undercover

  I think this thread needs to be renamed.

  Instead of, "Is it Possible to Reason with a Jehovah's Witness?", it should be, "Is it Possible to Reason with XQsThaiPoes?"
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  10

  JW golfs to win $ need scriptural advice

  by Beans in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well a jw at my work is taking a day off work to play in a golf tournament to win money.

  he has to pay $60 to enter and can win up to $2500.. now i said that is really like gambling and he said he checked it out and it wa ok, so i asked if he had asked an elder and he said he looked on the disk.. so i need any info from the bible and publications that will prove him wrong so i can council him next week!.

  beans.

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  undercover

  Where in the Bible exactly does it say or imply that gambling is wrong? Not greed, not egotism, but playing games of chance to try to win a prize or money? If gambling is so wrong, wouldn't God have made it clear to not participate in such things? The WTS, along with other fundamentalists do a great job of using scriptures that condemn greed, etc to apply to gambling, but I don't remember the Bible coming right out and saying gambling is a sin.
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  61

  I going to picket my parents convention this weekend!

  by Atilla in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, my parents have pissed me off so much with their denial and their refusal to even acknowledge my complaints against the borg.

  they pretend everything is perfect at the kingdom hall and expect me to play nice to their dub friends so as to protect their own reputation.

  this weekend in philadelphia, they are going to to their little convention and i have some evil thoughts.

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  undercover

  I was driving to work this morning and saw some two guys holding up political signs at street corners. I thought to myself, "Don't these guys have anything better to do than stand by the street looking stupid?" Even though they obviously felt strong about their candidate, it doesn't really affect people who make an informed decision about the election. It was a waste of their time and made no impact. I can't even remember who's sign they were holding up.

  My point is this, and it will probably be unpopular here, but here goes: picketing a religious convention, be it JWs, the Baptists or the Mormons, makes the picketer look as out of touch with reality as the ones going to the convention. No offense Danny, but all those pictures you posted of yourself with your signs; if I saw you outside of a coliseum picketing whatever was going on inside I would think that you really had a screw loose. Maybe the group that's being picketed against is corrupt, but one lone disgurntled, card-carrying zealot isn't going to affect anyone who takes the time to be informed about either side of the issue.

  In my personal opinion, picketing JWs at the convention is a waste of time. The JWs won't pay any attention to it, they've been programmed to ignore it. Non-JWs don't give a flip about JWs one way or the other or realize they are a "cult". They're not paying attention to anything that goes on there. Once in a while someone might get a little media attention. Most people will look at it and say, "Don't these guys have anything better to do than stand around looking stupid?"
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  15

  If Jehovah let his name be removed from the Bible - how accurate can it be?

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this question has always troubled me.. suppose you write a book.

  it becomes a best seller.

  then some little fart comes along and replaces your name with anonymous.. now this book can be published and edited by just about anybody who chooses to be "anonymous".. end result - your original work is lost and some revised edition has replaced it, written by "anonymous".

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  undercover

  I always wondered why JWs put so much emphasis on using God's name. They name their religion using his supposed name. They brag that only they use his supposed name. If it meant so much to God that his worshippers use his name would he have allowed the actual spelling and pronunciation to be lost? So I guess my question would be, "If God let his name be removed from the Bible, how powerful and almighty can he be?"
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  14

  Malawi vs UN scandal and the #$&* hits the fan

  by amac in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  so the $*&# is starting to hit the fan as far as our fading away goes.

  a friend approached my spouse and confronted her on our kids going to a birthday party.

  it turned into a long discussion and at one point the un scandal came up and my spouse compared it to the brothers in malawi who died rather than get a political card.

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  undercover

  Our "friend" said that those brothers were told they had to renounce Jehovah or their belief in Jehovah.

  Becoming an NGO of the UN consists of supporting and promoting the ideals of the United Nations. To support and promote the UN would, for all intense purposes, mean that they renounce one's belief in Jehovah's plan for destruction of the very entity that they aligned themselves with. This is tantamount to renouncing Jehovah himself.

  So, what's the difference?
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  26

  New policy about appointing elders

  by XQsThaiPoes in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  a po i know said that now the wts makes them do back ground checks and ask every congo the person has ever attended approve them before the send the letter to the wts.

  i think this could be because of the child abuse thing.

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  undercover

  I guess the Holy Spirit isn't appointing elders anymore (tongue in cheek)

  You're tongue may have been in your cheek, but that statement really says a lot.

  Why do they need to do all these background checks? If a BOE recommends a brother for MS or elder and it makes its way to the GB to be prayed over and have the holy spirit appoint, wouldn't that holy spirit, God's active force, know if they were worthy or not? Why would the holy spirit need background checks from previous congregations? It should already know these things. God sees all and knows all so therefore his holy spirit would know not to appoint someone who is a secret sinner.
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  140

  Should Hand Held Cell Phones be Outlawed While Driving??

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i use a cell all the time.

  some states want to outlaw the use of these phones while driving....got an opinion on that?

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  undercover

  Interesting debate. I am quick to say "ban em all" when it comes to cell phones, but how do you police it? What about lip-stick put-er-on-ers and coffee drinkers and smokers and newspaper readers and doughnut eaters(oh wait, that's the cops).

  Instead of making a law against things like cell phones and worrying about speeding, traffic cops should be looking for stupid and dangerous drivers. If your in the left lane going below the speed limit while talking on the phone, you get a ticket. You stop at the bottom of an accleration lane(hello! it's called "accleration". step on the damn gas peddle) you get a ticket. The list goes on and on. Odds are most people won't get caught while doing these stupid manuevers, so what you have to do is when they either finally get caught or cause an accident(and we hope no one is hurt) that the stupid driver is heavily fined and penalized. Over time, people will realize that driving is not something you do while doing other things, it's something that should take your complete concentration and attention while doing it and they can't afford to be messing around or it's going to cost them plenty.

  Not everyone is a professional driver, but if we pay attention to our driving, focus on the job at hand, watch out ahead, watch for dangerous situations, be prepared to avoid those situations(not just slamming on brakes at the last second), most accidents could be avoided. But because most people don't do those things, or they're trying to multi-task while driving, they either cause a serious situation that people who are paying attention have to work extra hard to avoid or they cause an accident (usually with another somebody not paying attention).
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  81

  Would You Go Back To A Kingdom Hall For A Funeral or Wedding?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  let's say one of your relatives either died or invited you to a wedding at a hall, would you go?

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  undercover

  i think it definitely has a lot to do with your personal experience while active with the JW's and also how closely your ties are to the ones doing the shunning.

  I think that has to be the key. It makes the difference in why some would go and some wouldn't. After reading Talesin's experience I don't blame him one bit for not wanting to have anything to do with it. I wouldn't either.

  I personally have only gotten shunned by people that I wasn't all that close to to begin with. My family, while confused and maybe embarrassed, has not shunned or disowned me. We are still family. That's why I would choose to go.
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  81

  Would You Go Back To A Kingdom Hall For A Funeral or Wedding?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  let's say one of your relatives either died or invited you to a wedding at a hall, would you go?

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  undercover

  i also think that they certainly CAN harm us. depending on how long out we are and how far along we are in the "detox", i think that the pain and memories can come back all too fast if a guard is not maintained.

  Those are valid points and I understand that we all have to deal with circumstances in our own way.

  For me, personally, I think part of conquering the fear of the control that the WTS had on us is to face it head on. I don't have a problem with walking into a room full (or even KH full of) JWs. They can't control me anymore. Why should I be afraid to face them? The downside to that is if you show up to too many JW functions, you show back up on their radar screen and the elder visits may start back up. But I refuse to play by their rules and allow them to alienate me and my family or few friends left in the borg. That's the whole point to fading, so as to not let them trap us into a DAing or DFing which alienates us from family and friends. Why alienate ourselves?

  keeping your distance is maybe not necessarily "shunning them back", but maybe it's more of a personal survival mode.

  It may be a personal survival mode for some, but it seems to be that we're allowing them to shun us too easily. I don't want to say, "I won't go to the wedding because they aren't going to speak to me anyway". I'm not going to the wedding so they can talk to me. I'm going to share in the joy of seeing a family member or close friend getting married. They don't wanna talk to me, their loss. I don't need their validation that I exist.

  That's just my take on it. I know we all have to do what we have to. I'm not critisizing anyones decision to not go and I hope my statements didn't come across that way.
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  81

  Would You Go Back To A Kingdom Hall For A Funeral or Wedding?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  let's say one of your relatives either died or invited you to a wedding at a hall, would you go?

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  undercover

  I see that most people have answered, "no" they wouldn't go. I'm not sure I understand why.

  I know there are various degrees of hurt and pain amongst all of us. I know that many are trying to fade away (myself inlcuded). While I am not formerly shunned, many people who I thought were friends treat me differently because I am inactive and for all intense purposes left the "truth". While I don't feel I owe them anything, including an explanation, I don't see why I should avoid my own family if they were kind enough to include me into their wedding plans. Why punish them or shun them because I want to avoid other JWs? If we claim to not let the WTS control on us any more, why are we afraid to be in the same room with them? Maybe we should go, face them, look them in the eye and let them see we are happy, well-adjusted people, who came to rejoice at a wedding or cry at a funeral of a friend and that they cannot harm us in any way.