voltaire

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Posts by voltaire

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  24

  Will Watchtower Fold Like The Taliban?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one day, you have a religious movement calling for.

  total sacrifice, that every man should fight to the.

  death in god's service.. a few days later, the leadership is negotiating a. surrender in disgrace.. could this portend the future of the watchtower?.

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  voltaire

  Nytelecom1,

  Those who predict the downfall of the WT don't claim to have authority from God.Therefore, they are not false prophets. BTW I doubt the WT society will fold or even shrink. In fact, if there is a significant loss of membership due to current controversies, it could signal a brief decline followed by an even more spectacular increase. On Randy's site there's a great article about what happens to groups after their prophecies are disconfirmed. The results are quite often the opposite of what one would expect. Those who remain despite the evidence that their leadership's predictions failed are the most committed. Recruiting new members is a way of proving that they were right after all, since the new members wouldn't be joining if there were a problem(I know, it's dubious reasoning) At any rate, people are free to belong to the WT if they wish to. I'm glad that now there's information available so that people can make an informed choice.
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  18

  Child sacrifice averted in Toronto by courts

  by expatbrit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever get those moments where you wonder how the hell you could ever have followed the wt's policy on blood?.

  i had one when reading this: http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=000054.

  one comment that stands out for me in this thread for it's unbelievable callousness and cult-indoctrination:.

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  voltaire

  That statement is incredible! Yes, it is a criminal offense. I wonder if the WT will relate this experience in the magazines if the child lives? Also, I was amazed what another post said, something about how wonderful the HLC brothers are. Not a word of gratitude to the doctors, who are actually trying to save the little one's life.

  It is sobering to think that I once felt the same way. I would have defended such an outrageous position. In fact, I almost died for want of blood when I was a teen. I sometomes hesitate to call the witnesses a cult, but there are times when that's the only word that will do.
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  10

  Doctrine Hangs By a Thread?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i was in my twenties, i wondered "wow!

  what would happen.

  if all the annointed died off or couldn't run the organization.

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  voltaire

  Just another disconfirmation of a WT prophecy. Randy has an interesting article on the freeminds website that describes how such disconfirmations often have the opposite effect of what one would expect. For those having doubts, your points might have some validity. For the 'true believer', it won't make a dent.
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  15

  Watchtower "Newspeak" Self Defeating

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in our search to understand the true nature of the watchtower,.

  it is likely that many of us consulted orwell's "1984".. in that book, one important component of big brother's rule is the.

  use of "newspeak".

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  voltaire

  Good points all! This is a healthy attitude to achieve. I no longer feel any need or desire to discuss doctrine or policy issues with my wife. The Sunday meeting almost always used to make me want to say something on the way home. But it always ended in an argument. Now I've let go of the frustration. I no longer feel any need to say anything. It's nonsense. I don't care to discuss it. Sometimes my wife would end up crying, but I think she's even more frustrated with the current situation. She realizes( I think) that she at least then she had a chance to mold my thinking, or make an occasional point. But she wasn't willing to concede that I might have a good point to make too. For most people, that's the price of having a discussion. You have to be willing to listen and willing to acknowledge it when the other person is right. I feel sad for her and her loss, but I've quit worrying about the pain and suffering others cause themselves needlessly.
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  8

  Grateful for Small Mercies - WBTS and Christmas

  by Stephanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it just dawned on me that the wbts is doing humanity a great service by not observing christmas and birthdays!

  wait, don't throw stuff at me yet - hear me out!

  imagine if the jws observed christmas and birthdays - what would they give as presents to their "wordly" relatives?

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  voltaire

  I was just reading in David Reed's book Confessions of a Jehovah's Witness Minister that Russell actually encouraged the Bible Students to give away sets of Studies in the Scriptures as Christmas gifts.
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  54

  JW's and Chronic Fatigue Syndrone!

  by cornish in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  chronic fatigue syndrone, m e, yuppie flu.

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  i dont know if anyone else has noticed the alarming number of jws who claim to suffer from chronic fatigue syndrone,i mean hear in cornwall there tend to be several sufferers in every congregation,outside the jws out of the many people i know i dont know anyone,although there are obviosly many outside the jws who suffer this illness,percentage wise it seems that jws have a much,much larger occorance of the illness.. for example my brother in law has not worked and been living on invalidity benefits for more than 10 years since his mid twenties,his brother is also in the same boat, an m.e sufferer.. i wonder if anyone has looked into this a bit more?

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  voltaire

  DB,

  I don't think you're implying anyone is faking their illnesses. The physical symptoms are real. The issue is whether or not they are the result of stress or some other kind of psychological pressure or whether there is a physical component. I think the pressure of believing that you're in a toe-to-toe battle with the devil himself can make a person feel exhausted. "I didn't witness to my co-workers today, they'll probably be dead forever, now." That kind of thinking can be tough on a person.

  On the other hand, some studies seem to show that religion(even FALSE religion) can help you live longer. I guess it depends on the person. Knowing God will take care of everything can be good for the body as well.
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  48

  Any Former Elders?

  by ItsJustMe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  would any former elders like to share their experiences serving on judicial committees?

  were your decisions subjective?

  do you feel that the "system" works?

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  voltaire

  itsjustme,

  I was an elder for several years and sat on about a dozen committees. We had a lot of young people, so that accounts for the large number of committees. That is also probably one of the reasons I got so burned out.

  You ask if the process is subjective. The answer yes, to a considerable degree. When elders have to decide if someone is repentant, that is usually very subjective. Everyone says they won't do it again. Everyone(most everyone, if they aren't sorry and say so then it isn't subjective!)feels bad. If someone sins a few times over a limited period of time, how can you know if they are "repentant"? You cant'. They can't, either.

  Some have made very disparaging remarks about elders. I believe that most elders really do try to do what is right. It is very difficult, and very confusing to be an elder. I'm sure there are some very serious power trips, but I think that most of the problem is that brothers are put in to this incedible vice of "if we DF he's going to feel bad, If we leave him in and we shouldn't Jehovah will remove his blessing." What a terrible bind for a sincere but ignorant(this is my subjective value judgement, anyone that believes so strongly in a god that they can behave as witnesses do is ignorant. That included me at one time.)men with little or no qualifications.

  To summarize. I don't blame the men (maybe a few, but they're exceptions) I blame the system.
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  13

  It is "late" again folks

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after the wtc tragedy many jehovah's witnesses on the fringes scurried back to mother in case it was the beginning of the big a. one of the watchtower society favorite themes is how incredibly late it is.

  it is in fact always later than you think.

  the problem is that most of the people, who believe how late it always is, seem to completely lack the ability to do much thinking.

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  voltaire

  I remember a few years back our DO would say something like, "make no mistake brothers, we're at the very end of the last days." No explanation, no scripture. But it had an impact, it's so thrilling to contemplate when you're a JW.
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  3

  Loyal JW's will have a field day with this

  by bboyneko in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .. http://www.cnn.com/2001/health/11/07/military.blood.ap/index.html.

  military admits its blood for soldiers is probably tainted and wont be better till late 2003.

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  voltaire

  Escargot,

  Your position is surely the position taken by doctors. If blood isn't necessary, they aren't likely to give it. All medicine and medical procedures have risks. If the "cure" is riskier than the disease, doctors wouldn't likely recommend it. I think being around the society gives one a skewed view of blood. We are familiar with its risks, but tend to forget about its benefits.
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  51

  Crisis of Conscience: POLL

  by Grout in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i'm finally reading coc, and i must tell you that despite already being an ex-dub i was *shocked*.

  the thing that got me was the gb's apparently unselfconsciously acting above all the rules that they would apply so harshly to everyone else.

  maybe i'm naive, but i didn't expect that level of hypocrisy.. so what did you find most shocking in coc?

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  voltaire

  nytelecom1,

  Until the society explains its side if the story, I'm assuming Ray's side is basically accurate. It has the ring of truth. I was an Elder and much of what he describes about the GB and its wrangling I've experienced firsthand on the local level. I know that doesn't mean what he says is 100% true, or even true at all. However, when a group takes the approach the society has, DFing those that disagree, demonizing former members, one naturally assumes that they have something to hide. Until the society allows examination and scrutiny of its policy making procedures, they leave me no choice but to assume the worst about the charges made against them.