assessing conclusions and arguments involves two tasks.
we should 1) look for unsound reasoning to avoid deception and we should 2) look for sound reasoning for enlightenment.
intelligent assessment of conclusions and arguments calls for a knowledge and comprehension of both these tasks.
Welllllll, hey, Marvin.
Nice to see you 'round here again - hope all's going well? Haven't read this marvelous thread yet as I'm at work goofing off. But as soon as I saw your name, I checked the date, and sure 'nuff! You're still here.
Will come back later and diligently read. Thanks.
waiting
sixy is not remotely involved in the recent complaints about an alleged over-amorous poster at this site.. .
his name was never mentioned by the complainants.. .
to those people who would malign others by false accusations, shame on you all!.
I vouch for Six also. From every talk we've had, every joke or evil dig we've given each other.........he's a great guy. I've never heard from anyone who knows him any different. Period.
Sure, he's a man...........but a very good one.
I TOTALLY agree with Wasasister on this...........the thread which generated all this un-necessary crap was vague and just puts fuel to those who would guess........"Is it...............?????????????????"
Btw, JW's are famous for doing this. "Well, I can't mention any names, but there's a brother/sister in our congregation who............................." And then the dirty games begin.
waiting
http://www.cnn.com/2004/world/meast/06/18/saudi.kidnap/index.html report: u.s. hostage beheaded al arabiya says new video shows killing
friday, june 18, 2004 posted: 1:38 pm edt (1738 gmt) .
(cnn) -- an arabic tv news network said friday that american hostage paul johnson jr. has been beheaded by his saudi captors.
Christianity was a peaceful and persecuted religion for it's first 300 + years, and it's founder was a man of peace killed violently.
The Jews haven't practiced this in over 2000 years.
Well, Yeru, if you're going to use that reasoning.........then the Jewish religion had a peaceful beginning too......remember Noah? All he did was save animals and his family. No killing. But the growth of the Jewish shepherds/nation in the OT? They were a killing crew.
Just because the Christian faith had a peaceful beginning - that doesn't denote the Christian faith history. The entire history of Christianity is the focus......just as with any other religion. When in hs, I asked the religion nun why we didn't study about the Spanish and Roman Inquisitions......as they were each hundreds of years of RC history? "We don't talk about those things." Well, those centuries of bloodbaths, along with the Crusade bloodbaths, must be taken into historical context. Not just the first 300 years. Obviously, the Catholic church, along with Christianity, couldn't maintain that peace for thousands of years. And the Catholic Church made themselves into a powerful goverment/nation for centuries from all those bloodbaths & feudal systems.
But as HS belaboriously brought out, Christianity has evolved somewhat - to acheive another way of thinking, sometimes. Muslims have not.
The beginnings of the Jewish religion and the Christianity religions are more similar.....as AlanF has brought out. But the beginning of anything doesn't define the thing. It's the entire structure that defines.
Good thread.
waiting
http://www.cnn.com/2004/world/meast/06/18/saudi.kidnap/index.html report: u.s. hostage beheaded al arabiya says new video shows killing
friday, june 18, 2004 posted: 1:38 pm edt (1738 gmt) .
(cnn) -- an arabic tv news network said friday that american hostage paul johnson jr. has been beheaded by his saudi captors.
Howdy,
I don't usually read political issue threads - which this one contains.
Condolences to the man's family; they will continue to suffer through this atrocity.
As for the issues? Even in this ONE thread - there are so many. HS makes good points - even the US government (at least in the news specials I've watched) says the same thing........the thinking of these people, in general, averages back into the 16th century or so. Says nothing about their intelligence....but their outlook is, generally, savage by 21st century standards........and so are some other civilized countries. And Yeru's saying basically the same thing.
If the Catholic Crusaders were still active in their mindset - could we comprehend/accept them? No more than the terrorists, most likely. Christianity as evolved.......and it's not accurate to just consider the first 300 yrs or so. Gotta do the whole, bloody, history. And it IS a terribly bloody history.
But for the reader (like me)? Interesting thread. Why all the drama from both sides claiming *foul post* is beyond me. Sorry, don't mean to belittle the situation........but I've seen a lot worse posts on a lot of other threads in the past.
Whatever happens next (and there will be).......may it eventually, hopefully, lead to a peace/compromise of sorts.
- and different cars.
waiting
.
no, not farhenheit 911...geesh, i was talking about the remake of the stepford wives...i really enjoyed it.. also, tnt is doing a remake of salem's lot airing this sunday and monday...should be good.. .
anymore i need to be aware of?
Troy was good, but long.
The Day After Tomorrow was good.
just curious.... i learned when i was 17 years old, when i was a jw .
(against their rules).
i still can read it.... i like artificial languages.
I ran into that word in the new Stephen King "Dark Tower VI" book, referring to a language.
No, I don't know it, btw.
waitng
my parents know how i feel about the whole religion and they now know that i will never come back.
there is a somewhat cordial existance at this point but i feel this won't last for long.
my wife and i regulary visit my parents and sometimes we even leave our 2 yr child at their house overnight.
If JW grandparents agreed to never mention anything religious to their grandchildren - and did that......wouldn't they be going against one of their strongest beliefs - "saving the lives of their loved ones"?
Yep.
What about "religous warfare"? What is a LIE according the the AID book? (great old threads on this btw).
A lie is an untruth told to someone who DESERVES a truthful answer. Otherwise, it's not a lie....and that is what the AID book (and a WT study article mid 90's) teaches.
So a grandparent is engaged in righteous religious warefare to save the very lives of their grandchildren against their sinning parents.....perhaps even Satanic (apostate) parents.
Yes, the grandparents will lie, cheat, & steal to accomplish this "Life Saving Work of Jehovah."
Don't trust them. Of course, there are some jw's who put their family over Jehovah the WTBTS. But they are few, and "spiritually weak" jw's.
waiting
moscow upholds ban on jehovah's witnesses
by maria danilova.
associated press writer leader of russian jehovah's witnesses, vasily kalin, right, jehovah's witnesses' canadian lawyer john burns, center, and spokesman for the jehovah's witnesses christian presber, stand in front of the moscow city court, wednesday, june 16, 2004. a moscow court upheld a ban on the city's jehovah's witnesses, ending a six-year case that reflected growing pressure to stifle minority religious groups in russia, where orthodox christianity is predominant.
I personally applaud Moscow's decision. The JW are a cult & can be very harmful to their followers.....even promoting a type of murder by non-action. Blood transfusions.
They break up families. Disfellowshipping. Disassociation. "Independent thinkers."
They recruit the (usually) uneducated. Once in......it's too late to honorably leave (except death). The person leaving either slinks away quietly & can never openly join another worship group (ugh) - or be branded as a "gross sinner."
Waddago Moscow.
waiting
this is so horrible....... http://abcnews.go.com/wire/us/ap20040615_247.html.
it seems like over recent years it is just becoming way too common for a mother to kill her children....it is sickening.
i wish something could be done to make this stop happening.....maybe if we started punishing the mothers more strongly instead of allowing them to get easier sentences based on insanity defenses then this would stop happening as frequently....i don't know, but i wish it would stop.
I strongly feel this is a mental/emotional problem much more than giving "stiffer sentences."
My daughter had a baby 3 months ago. During the first week after birth, she was depressed somewhat (I would too with the pain & discomfort she was going through).
When she visited her Dr., the Dr. sternly (but lovingly) told her to be back within one week. If she was still crying.......she was on meds whether my daughter wanted to or not. Period. They are friends btw. The Dr. said "We don't look lightly at mothers crying anymore."
I think that a great step in the right direction. Now if mothers only knew (and would) go to the doctor before tragedy happened. It's a known issue that women tend to be quiet about such things.
waiting
i finally feel like there is someone out there that understands what i'm going through.
my ex-girlfriend (and still best friend) try to understand but she just can't.
she supports me in being strong but it's just nice to vent to people who have been through the same thing.
Welcome to freedom, Jared!
It's a mixed blessing.......but being free to think/read/live the way you want (within legal limits, of course) is a great feeling.
Most of us have lost family/friends/jobs/homes because of leaving the jw cult. Learning about them from the outside & making new friends makes it easier. Sounds like you're doing fine. Congratulations!
If your parents are typical jw's - they'll vacilate from hardline to just being ol' parents. Remember you love them - and enjoy your life. You've earned it.
Welcome to our forum - a fine place.
waiting
