Posts by villagegirl

17

Watchtowerinvestigation.com

by mouthy in

can anyone get this?.

villagegirl

Meleti Vivlon
http://meletivivlon.com/2013/02/26/to-whom-shall-we-go-away/

Quoting Meleti: "So my point is that there is no other religion on earth today that even comes close to Jehovah’s Witnesses, despite our errors in interpretation and at times our conduct." ( I tried to post the following reply, which Mleti Vivion refused to post :
This statement is just not true. When asked what his followers should DO, Jesus answered:
" I was hungry and you fed me, naked and you clothed me, in prison and you went to me, alone and you visited me, a stranger and you took me in…."

When defining what true religion is the answer was not, isolate yourself and distribute books, it was " Taking care of widows and orphans in their tribulation"
When demonstrating WHO we are supposed to love and take care of, Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan, and how he saw a man beside the road, he didn't asked the man who he was, or require that he be a member of a group, he was a stranger lying on the ground, and the Samaritan helped him"
These are the examples of what Christianity looks like in action.

MELITI WROTE: We would never want Rev. 22:15 to apply to us: “Outside are the dogs…and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.”

I replied with the following, which he refused to post

That is precisely what many Jehovah's Witnesses are doing, supporting what they know to be a lie. Supporting a rigid hierarchy that banishes dissenters and punishes free speech or any question against structural authority and protects pedophiles by organizational policy by not turning them into the police. These are lies and serious crimes. There is no sugar coating this into some view that these are loving and caring or honest acts. Power is sweet to many men, and they have tittles and power
in the congregation they do not have outside the Kingdom Hall.

To Whom Shall We Go Away ? - is not speaking of an organization, or a group of people, but of Christ Himself. You present a problem that does not exist. People who leave the WT do not "disappear", they simply realize they are not above other people, and that their relationship to God is through Jesus Christ
not an organization. They no longer need to be 'Stars' they can fit in with other Christians everywhere.

Your premise is wrong - Jesus disciples were not suggesting that they would "go away" from being a Jew or leave the teachings contained in Genesis to Malachi, or leave the ten commandments, or even go away from the Temple or the Synagogue they all went to. This was a question of the person of Jesus Christ. Was he the Messiah ? The promised Christ ? The son of God ? They chose Jesus.

The premise you have put forward is: the followers of the WatchTower and the Governing Body who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses are a "special marked group of people who are receiving God's Holy Spirit is some exclusive way, because they are in an organization." An organization who is led by eight men who claim to be Mediator between God and Mankind. The signs you mention are: preaching work, love among themselves, special knowledge. None of these things matter at all.

But in fact; this claim or the governing body that they are the faithful and discreet slave, makes the Watchtower Organization not just wrong, but the evil slave. There is clearly only ONE Mediator between God and Mankind and that is Jesus Christ, anyone who "Stands in the Holy Place" is anti-Christ. When the Governing Body claims to be the sole channel of communication between God and mankind they are "Standing in the Holy Place" the place that only Jesus Christ can occupy, the place of Mediator.

Association with an organization is not and never has been in history, the basis of receiving Holy Spirit. Getting together to read Watchtowers, does no constitute some identifying mark of a believer to the Angels or to Jesus to to Jehovah. The self proclaimed official representatives of Jehovah in Jesus day were the Jewish leaders, leaders of the official, headquarters, Temple in Jerusalem, were they not ?

The "preaching work" is not an identifying mark, since the WT "preaching" is nothing more than distribution of books and magazines which expound the view that the governing body of the Watchtower is the sole channel of communication between God and Man, which prevents people from seeing Jesus Christ is the their mediator and not any organization of group of eight men in New York. We are to preach the Good News of the Christ.

The idea that we as Jehovah's Witnesses have "special knowledge" is false. We do not have any special knowledge. The central doctrines of the JW teachings were all well established before the foundation of the WatchTower organization. Russell taught what the Millerites of his day were teaching, the Adventists, the anti-hellfire, anti-trinity, no immortal soul, end times prophesies and calculations, were all copies of what was already in print at the time in the Adventist movement in America.

12

Jehovah's Witnesses: Will the Elders in Leadville,Co. be HAPPY to speak with us regarding a particular JW?

by I_love_Jeff in

i put the question (you see in the title) up on ya answers and it was deleted.

how can i report yahoo answers community for unjust treatment?

a particular jehovah's witness on ya!

villagegirl

Logic ? Are we looking to some WT manual, top secret ot not, for LOGIC ?? Really ?

15

Why is the "Shepherd the Flock of God" book only viewed by Elders?

by I_love_Jeff in

if the shephard book contains rules taken from the nwt, then why is one held confidential and the other not viewed as such?

if the sheep are not allowed to view the elders manual then they should not be allowed to view/read the nwt.. "the following page shows an excerpt from one of the official letter that was sent to the elders regarding the importance of keeping this book confidential:.

(note: the "kingdom ministry school" referred to in the letter is a training program for elders and ministerial servants; the 1991 kingdom ministry textbook referred to is the previous version that the"shepherd the flock of god" book replaces)".

villagegirl

Your creeping me out - I left 20 years ago and this is just getting weirder and weirder - I think whoever has a copy should post it here for all to see.

32

Why I think (in a nutshell) why this org is approaching collapse

by cptkirk in

in a nutshell: i think that (and i do not enjoy thinking about this)...i think that the crazies within the religion (who range from just low level people to co elder do and up) have won so many battles at this point (over the more balanced people/ideas)......that the people who tend to think in a more balanced fashion (whether they themselves be low level or higher up) are getting to be the real minority.

i think this dynamic, will be what finally sinks the ship.. as we see with any organization (corporate or otherwise), many times there are reports that make you wonder (how is this thing alive or prospering?

), and upon closer scrutiny, there are strong people in the background holding the walls up (who themselves get little attention).

villagegirl

There is something in human nature that draws people to "miracle cures" and dramatic and powerful and 'secret' knowledge, or the idea that such things exist. Its like the 'conspiracy theorists' , they feel an excitement over their membership in an off-the-grid group of 'thinkers' who think they know whats running things and other people don't. Scientology has this same appeal. The "Organization" works for the men at the top. It works for men in particular. I know an elder, who inherited wealth, and his wife inherited wealth and they live large, travel all over the world and are "Stars" in their congregation, where he is an elder, and 'Stars' in their own minds. They are comfortable, well liked and do as they please. The "Truth" makes them feel even more special. They feel untouchable. To exam the injustices, the preposterous teachings of the WT, the failed prophesies, the absurd foundations of Egyptology and the Occult that this religion rests its feet in, is something they can just ignore. There are no embarrassing reminders in the Kingdom Hall library. Its a society of short-term-memory-loss. The fact that the world governments were supposed to turn on organized religion and the churches were supposed to all dry up and blow away, as described in the literature of the 70's and 80's , the fact that the exact opposite has happened, and that there are now huge Mega Churchs in their town, of evangelicals and the Catholic Church down the street from the Kindom Hall is bursting at the seams while the KH attendance has dropped to a handful, is just not on their radar, it doesn't register.

44

JWs in the UK: 27 years of yearbook stats and stagnation

by 88JM in

jw
friends

okay, so i went on a bit of a statistics binge after looking at poland.

i thought i would have a look at my home country's yearbook stats here in the uk (britain).. so here they are for your consideration.

had to go into the loft for some of the older yearbooks, and found some other older publications too.. nothing too remarkable as such here, as far as i can see, apart from:.

villagegirl

BUT - judging from this forum ALONE there seem to be a lot of people who are not mentally or spiritualy

convinced anymore that the GB are who they claim to be or the WT is what they claim to be,

but are still showing up to meetings and sitting there like zombies.??

So extrapolate that over all congregations and the numbers are not really representitive of what is going on.

I came here - to this forum after an absence of all contact with witnesses for the last 20 years. When I left, I left on my own, by myself, and had not contact with any other person who had left. I left for a multitude of reasons, and then finally the Crisis of Conscience Book took me completly into freedom. This forum is a complete surprise to me, that it even exists. The early ex-witness sites in the 1990's were run by some pretty lunatic people.

I am encouraged by this site, even though I seem to be one of the few "Jesus Freaks" here.

39

Is it disrespectful to call God by his name?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

this seems to me to be yet another flawed reasoning from the wt.

god is supposed to be jw's "father".

it always seemed a bit strange even when i was mentally in, the argument they used to support using the name jehovah.

villagegirl

This is what the Jews always say in Synagogue, it is know as "the Shema"

Deuteronomy 6:4-9
Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

9

Just Shows What Religion Can Do

by Joe Grundy in

jw
friends

a child rape victim is sentenced to 100 lashes.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21595814.

i don't know about you, i'm an atheist, but i cannot accept that any religion can justify this inhumane, brutal, wicked treatment of a child victim of rape.. there is no excuse for this behaviour on the part of a supposedly civilsed government.

it has fuck all to do with religion, it has all to do with humanity and being a 'human being'.. i have written to my mp and hope to follow this up through the un charter on childrens' rights.. anyone here booked a 'maldives luxury holiday'?.

villagegirl

Civil Rights was a religious movement.

Martin Luther King was a Baptist Minister.

The Quakers and other religious groups

ran the underground railroad during slavery

in the USA and it was religious groups

that brought about abolition and were primarily

instrumental in ending social injustice of slavery:

The Union army sang the song marching to battle;

"The Battle Hymn of the Republic",

words: Mine eyes have seen the glory of the

Coming of the Lord;

He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes

of wrath are stored;

He hath loosed the fateful lightning of his terrrible swift sword.

His truth is marching on. Glory Glory hallelujah (chorus)

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,

they have builded Him an alter in evening dews and damps;

I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and

flaring lamps. His truth is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across

the sea, with a glory in His bosom

that transfigures you and me: As He died to make

men holy, let us die to make men free.

And what have Atheists done for us ?

Slavery is a perfect example of unscrupulous men

using religion to abuse and enslave other people,

and then being resisted, and swept away

by more honest and brave religious people.

I encourage everybody to write to the president

of the Republic of the Maldives

( which is under Sharia Law, which is much like Watchtower Law)

The President's Office
Boduthakurufaanu Magu, Male' 20113
Republic of Maldives
Phone: (960) 332 3701 Fax: (960) 332 5500
http://www.presidencymaldives.gov.mv/Index.aspx?lid=6

88

10 Years Japan losses 5,400 Publishers and 638 Kingdom Halls! Why?

by Witness 007 in

japan had a handful of witnesses after ww 2....this number skyrocketed to 222,912 by 1998!

then something happened.

publisher figures didn't stop, they dropped by thousands over the next decade!.

villagegirl

yareuare - Thanks for this insight - I was "captured" by the WT at 15 years old, my first religious experience, so I became a "true believer" and my 'rebellion' against my agnostic parents was to be strictly religious opposite of them. But I would say from your description of the Japanese experience, it seems very much like what goes on in the USA. I believe statistically, most witnesses in the US are women also. Lots of women and the men are also dictators and rule makers. There is a lot of gossip and shaming of each other and paranoia. Also lots of mentally ill people in the US congregations as well. US witnesses also love to judge the behaviour of others. I met lots of mean people in the WT and cold hearted as well. They like to have "gatherings" and drink and eat with friends, but the friendships do not go as deep as the loyal friends I have found in the real world. The witnesses tend to be suspicious and dishonest and fearful. The lack of education among them makes it an association of the simple minded, or the extremely ignorant who think they have beeen 'educated' by the Awake magazine and the study books. The average witness thinks there are only two choices, the WT doctrines or no God at all and complete immorality, so often the DF person's behavior strengthens or "proves" WT warnings that "there is nothing out there" and the only safe place is "inside the organization". This site proves ex-witnesses are a variety of people. Also there is great resistance to any talk of Jesus Christ or the idea of being a born again Christian, this idea seeme to repulse witnesses and ex-witnesses as well. Its a reactionary religion that depends on convoluted and obscure explanations of the simplest ideas. Balanced views are hard to find. But they do exist, even in this forum.

79

Watchtower and Freemasonry

by mizpah2 in

thanks for the information, .

today by jws themselves and by the general public at large.. the repelling opposition and from mainstream christendom stems from ideologies created most likely from the freemason theologies.. the theological idea that one should congregate in worship in a place that replicates king solomon's temple as a truer.

emulation of where people should worship god (yahweh) as apposed to typically designed churches.. the probable reason also why worshiping centers for the jws are called kingdom halls and not churches.. when j rutherford broke away more less from the ibsa to create the jw organization, the remaining ibsa still used freemason halls to .

villagegirl

Did anyone note the cover of the Book 'a helping hand for bible students' The Time is at Hand' posted by mizpah2 has the Wings of Isisembossed on the cover, and these wings of Isis were on the covers of many if not all Russell's Books . Isis being the wife of Osiris and Mother of Horus worshipped in Egypt, Rome, Greece and Asia.

23

I have a dumb question re: publishing corp...

by new22day in

many of you refer to wts as a rich publishing corp. since the mags they pass out are free i don't understand how they make money from them?

sorry for the dumb question - curious newbie....

villagegirl

The last figure I saw in print was that they were worth 200 billion. The recent sexual abuse case settled against the Watchtower Society , was a 21 million dollar $ victory for the 25 years old who was sexually molested as a child, and had the tenacity and bravery to come forward as an adult and sue. The offender was know to the elders and they never called the police because of WT rules. So - 21 million $$$ times - thousands of victims ? Children, now adults, long silent, sexually molested by known pedophiles and protected by congregation elders from exposeure or arrest. I hope these victims do a class action bring this evil empire down. And the eight men in charge should be in jail if justice is truly done.