Posts by warehouse

34

The relationship between the Father and Son. What's your opinion?

by DATA-DOG in

i am curious about this.

ever since i realized that there is no proof that jesus=michael the archangel, i wondered about who jesus was.

that's how i think of the father and the son, or the word.

warehouse

warehouse wrote:

but I thought I'd just throw these two scriptures out there, and see what everyone thinks of them:
John 17 (yes, the entire 26 verses)

Hebrews 5:1-10

I'll post my own thoughts tomorrow after the annual meeting . . . lol, if anyone is even cares then.

After I read the entire 17th chapter of John, I can only come to the conclusion that God the Father and Jesus his Son are two distinct entities, both of whom can exist separate from each other and make independent decisions. The glory in vs 5 is the same glory in vs 22 and vs 24. So even the apostles are capable of attaining this glory (to a degree, I guess that's a separate topic for debate).

I can agree with Jesus and Jehovah being the same individual. If all of Jehovah's dealings with the Israelites, Moses, Abraham, and Adam/Eve is really Jesus, then ok, that makes sense as long as above and beyond this scenario the existence of a higher being than Jesus/Jehovah is recognized.

The reason that God the Father must exist is found at Hebrews 5:1-10. These verses for me have always proven that Jesus did not, and could not glorify himself. If he did, then his role as a king/priest is null and void.

This is how I understand it, at least from the perspective that the Bible is true and accurate and the word of God the Father and/or Jesus.

24

Are MOST JW's lacking Moral Fibre ?

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

i find that whether born in or converts, most jw's give their own conscience over to the gb (and writing dept) to dictate how they will react to any moral question.. they simply lack a conscience of their own.. this is not their fault, we should not look down on them for this, their conscience, their natural feeling of what is right and wrong has been:.

stolen from them !.

we all know how the cult does this to them, it did it to us, i really am almost in tears when i think that had either of my darling children needed a blood transfusion i would have resisted, believing what i have been taught all my life, that their eternal life was more important than their life now.. how can we persuade jw's to take back their conscience ?.

warehouse

Bungi Bill wrote:

This forum is not necessesarily only about helping those still in the JW religion, so I would not be too hard on Phizzy!

Don't get me wrong, I love Phizzy, and want to help him. But sometimes venting turns into pontificating, which then evolves into prejudice, and before you know it, the golden calf of JW dogma/close-mindedness is being celebrated by the very ones who left.

24

Are MOST JW's lacking Moral Fibre ?

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

i find that whether born in or converts, most jw's give their own conscience over to the gb (and writing dept) to dictate how they will react to any moral question.. they simply lack a conscience of their own.. this is not their fault, we should not look down on them for this, their conscience, their natural feeling of what is right and wrong has been:.

stolen from them !.

we all know how the cult does this to them, it did it to us, i really am almost in tears when i think that had either of my darling children needed a blood transfusion i would have resisted, believing what i have been taught all my life, that their eternal life was more important than their life now.. how can we persuade jw's to take back their conscience ?.

warehouse

DATA-DOG wrote:

Jws are brave at times. Some lose their lives for the faith. Sadly it's 99.9% percent unnecessary.

Now THAT'S a statement that contains moderation, logic and truth. You get the person thinking "hmm he knows I believe in my faith firmly, but has concluded that my zeal is misplaced. why?", and then you've opened the door to a disscussion.

24

Are MOST JW's lacking Moral Fibre ?

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

i find that whether born in or converts, most jw's give their own conscience over to the gb (and writing dept) to dictate how they will react to any moral question.. they simply lack a conscience of their own.. this is not their fault, we should not look down on them for this, their conscience, their natural feeling of what is right and wrong has been:.

stolen from them !.

we all know how the cult does this to them, it did it to us, i really am almost in tears when i think that had either of my darling children needed a blood transfusion i would have resisted, believing what i have been taught all my life, that their eternal life was more important than their life now.. how can we persuade jw's to take back their conscience ?.

warehouse

jgnat wrote:

I think a better way to explain it as the cruelty of inaction, is that parents stand by and do nothing as their children die.

Ah indeed, and you proved my point thoroughly. Using hyperbole and being overly dogmatic are what NOT to do when talking to a JW about their beliefs. Saying things like "your cult kills children" just puts you in the same category as the individuals whom you might be trying to help.

24

Are MOST JW's lacking Moral Fibre ?

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

i find that whether born in or converts, most jw's give their own conscience over to the gb (and writing dept) to dictate how they will react to any moral question.. they simply lack a conscience of their own.. this is not their fault, we should not look down on them for this, their conscience, their natural feeling of what is right and wrong has been:.

stolen from them !.

we all know how the cult does this to them, it did it to us, i really am almost in tears when i think that had either of my darling children needed a blood transfusion i would have resisted, believing what i have been taught all my life, that their eternal life was more important than their life now.. how can we persuade jw's to take back their conscience ?.

warehouse

Phizzy wrote:

JW's are prepared to murder their children,

Phizzy then wrote:

Sometimes all it takes is to say "Grow a set of balls ", a crude expression, but one that works with a few. Most lack the ability to do so, having been emascualted thoroughly by the Cult.

If JWs can't even grow a pair of balls, how could they possibly be prepared to kill their own children? Or, if they are so degenerate so as to kill their own children, wouldn't that put them beyond the scope of the help of individuals from this forum?

13

Wife says "John 17:3 is just like Christendom's translations!"

by leaving_quietly in

she downloaded the jw library app which has the parallel versions of a verse, and upon looking at john 17:3, she said the above to me.

i wonder if this will start causing chinks in the armor for many jws, especially when they look up john 14:14 or rev.

5:10. the months ahead should be interesting..

warehouse

As I said in another thread, this verse comparison feature (which is like BibleHub, something I've been using since I learned TTATT but which most JWs probably don't know about) could be a bad idea, in that it will demonstrate to some JWs that there was really no need for a new NWT after all, when it's simply gotten closer to a bunch of old Bible translations from Christendom.

Talk about mind reading, this is exactly what I was thinking, even as the guy was showing it at the AM. I even thought, "wow guys, r u sure? there's no undo on this one, once you start down the verse-by-verse comparison path, there's no turning back". I guess with all the other apps out there, BibleHub, BibleGateway, etc. the GB finally broke down and realized that they are actually way behind in providing tools and information for study. And they'd rather the R&F use society approved crap instead of outside tools and info.

31

Anything new BESIDES new bible release at the annual meeting?

by EndofMysteries in

so was it all just a new bible release or was there any doctrine changes, etc?

.

warehouse

Besides any of the par-for-course absurdities mentioned above, or stupid condecending jokes, there were no other major changes to doctrine. 144,000 is still a litteral number. No tithing instituted. Bible dumbed down.

You going over niggas heads, Lu (Dumb it down!)
They telling me that they don't feel you (Dumb it down!)
We ain't graduate from school, nigga (Dumb it down!)
Them big words ain't cool, nigga (Dumb it down!)
Yeah I heard "Mean and Vicious", nigga (Dumb it down!)
Make a song for the bitches, nigga! (Dumb it down!)
We don't care about the weather nigga (Dumb it down!)
You'll sell more records if you (Dumb it down!)

34

The relationship between the Father and Son. What's your opinion?

by DATA-DOG in

i am curious about this.

ever since i realized that there is no proof that jesus=michael the archangel, i wondered about who jesus was.

that's how i think of the father and the son, or the word.

warehouse

What an excellent thread. It's really late where I am, too late to get into a serious discussion, but I thought I'd just throw these two scriptures out there, and see what everyone thinks of them:

John 17 (yes, the entire 26 verses)
Hebrews 5:1-10

I'll post my own thoughts tomorrow after the annual meeting . . . lol, if anyone is even cares then.

46

Lurkers and Apologists, can you please explain.....

by DATA-DOG in

..from the scriptures why.... 1) material wealth is a sign of jehovah's blessing in our modern day.. 2) why jehovah blesses the growth of chicken populations, but allows active jehovah's witnesses to die in field service, or on the way to conventions, and on the way to celebrate the memorial?

3) why jesus is not your mediator?

bibles and a concordance only.

warehouse

outsmartthesystem wrote:

Data Dog - What magazines are these ridiculous stories in?

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/302013001#p129

46

Lurkers and Apologists, can you please explain.....

by DATA-DOG in

..from the scriptures why.... 1) material wealth is a sign of jehovah's blessing in our modern day.. 2) why jehovah blesses the growth of chicken populations, but allows active jehovah's witnesses to die in field service, or on the way to conventions, and on the way to celebrate the memorial?

3) why jesus is not your mediator?

bibles and a concordance only.

warehouse

DATA-DOG wrote:

No offense, but I do not consider you an apologist. LOL!! You are too logical in your thinking, and challenging an CO or DO is way to rebellious! LOL!!

LOL, none taken sir. If is in the defense of actual Bible principals, I will rebel until I die.