Posts by wokeup

15

WT quoting things

by badboy in

jw
friends

i notice that the wt does a lot of quoting from various sources eg.

for their creation/ecolution and their magazines.. do they ever check whether their sources of information are reliable?.

what does all this quoting `prove', when i can do selective quoting that `proves' fairies exist, give me various books about fairies and i could cut and paste to `prove' fairies exist

The Society has for years been using anonymous quotes such as "one bible commentator states" or "one well known...
" to give weight to the arguement. When they do actually use a persons' name it's often someone who's been dead for a 150 years.
They are also great at directly quoting from works no longer in circulation from the 19th century but fail to date the material(see the book:Isaiah's Prophecy vol.1 pg. 17,19) Makes it virtually impossible for a sincere "bible student" to verify the validity of the material. To 'make sure of all things'.
I find it pretty pathetic that the WBTS uses quotes to support their arguements from the very establishments they love to vilify, and just as absurd, is when they quote from themselves!
Just my thoughts on the matter.

Allen

8

Recent JW Question

by Uboat_Ninja in

jw
friends

seeing as i have'nt been to a kingdom hall since at least 3 years ago's memorial, can anyone explain a couple things to me.. 1. i always was under the impression that the wts interpreted the bible as to say that before the generation that saw 1914 pass away, the end will come.

am i crazy?.

2. i heard they've shy'd away from this in the last few years, true?.

wokeup

Uboat,according to the Divine Purpose publication, published in 1959 These are the stated memorial partakers between 1938-58
1938: 36,732
1939: 29,385
1940: 27,620
1941: 23,989
1942: 24,035
1943: 23,577
1944: 22,684
1945: 22,324
1946: 27,587
1947: 26,449
1948; 25,395
1949: 24,312
1950: 22,723
1951: 21,619
1952: 20,221
1953: 19,108
1954: 17,884
1955: 16,815
1956: 16,302
1957: 15,628
1958: 15,037

Hope you find this useful. I found it interesting there was over a 5263 increase postWW2 in those claiming to be "annointed".Following that there was a loss of several hundred a year. The number of partakers dropping in half in less than 20 years. Now they have practically quit dying for the last 2 decades.

Allen

14

For Those Recently DA'd

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

i feel quite sure that the harangued and harassed souls on this board who this week were being mercilessly hounded by the gb in their cowardly guise as appointed elders looking for da signatures on pieces of paper, take great comfort in the following statements in the december 15th 2001 wt.

these da, letters of course are a requirement from god and have nothing to do with the solidification of any pharisaical legal position.. 11. from a study of biblical and secular evidence, we can conclude that the pharisees thought highly of themselves as guardians of the public good and the national welfare.

they were not satisfied that gods law was fundamentally clear and easily understood.

wokeup

When I read paragraphs 11,12 and 16 I at first got the impression that the writing dept. was encouraging some type of reform without admitting their attitude and manmade rules are the problem. The end of paragraph 12 sums it up "self-righteous,faultfinding,judgemental and demeaning. Paragraph 16 "always looking for and highlighting the flaws in others(denominations)" The leadership are experts in this,undoubtedly they can't see the rafter in their own eye.
By not using modern day specifics within the congregations, but rather making broad generalities referring to the Pharisees and putting the blame on the elder bodies tells me the leadership continues their policy of denial(that they are the root of the problem). Won't see any apologies soon.
Allen

8

Internet Service Providers knowing....

by BritBoy in

jw
friends

not one for living in fear of "big brother" i was astounded to hear a young lady at aol ask me to verify some details and then procede to mention the site i last visited!.

the problem arose when i needed to update my billing info.

she asked all the usual questions and then when it got to the last 4 digits of my credit card... she said i did not have the right numbers... then it hit me, my card had expired and i was now using the new one with the new number across the front.

wokeup

That reminds me of an incident about a year and a half ago when I first got online I signed up for a free trial at Mcafee.com for hacker protection and recieved an E-mail from a man that said he was a concerned JW that had a job that allowed him to know what sites I visited and knew I had been visiting apostate sites and that he could help me if I had doubts or questions about the WBTS and would "keep an eye on me." I sent a complaint to Mcafee that day mentioning his name and that he was going to do this. I never heard back from him or the Co.
I had a surprise visit a week later from 2 elders to warn me of the "dangers of the internet and the temptation to begin independant thinking,Satan Adam and Eve did it and look where it got them?" I asked them when did they get the ability to began policing my mind.That shut 'em up.They also had computers with internet service(3 out of 7 elders did) I was the first MS to go online.(small southern town)...Coincidence? Not long after that I stepped down as MS.

10

scriptural intentional distortions

by tosko in

hi all!.

can anyone point out clear and intentional distortions in jws translations and interpretations?

dishonesty in translation?

wokeup

One example in the NWT is found in Col.1:16,17 where the word (other) is inserted to change the context without support in the original greek. just look in the NWT greek interlinear.There's many others.

83

Special Dub Words That Make You Go YUK!

by Englishman in

jw
friends

for me, the word was "loving".. great "loving" kindness.. great undeserved "loving" kindness!.

disfellowshipping is a "loving" provision.. when the wtbts want their accolytes to swallow another bitter pill, another restriction, another rebuke, another demand on time, the buzz word is "loving".. the "loving" word, is, to the average jw, the same as the mccabe nod is to the salesman.

the mccabe nod is used by salesman all the time to get the prospective customer to agree to something that he doesn't care for too much.

wokeup

"Kingdom Interest" aka... seek first the WBTS

4

Guilt

by FreeFallin in

thought i should post here as my problems are miniscule compared to what's going on in the world right now.

i feel so disloyal to jehovah by reading all the info on this web site, but what got me to post here in the first place was the information on the un.

i guess i'm trying to tell myself that it's reaally not that bad, that they had a very good reason for forming a slight alliance with the disgusting thing, etc.

wokeup

Dear Freefallin, the fact you had the courage to post and express your feelings is commendable. It took me awhile myself. Don't let the rhetoric from the society to not think for yourself get in the way to express yourself. The society feels very threatened with the existence of the free flow of information on the internet. I can tell you personally it has helped free my mind from the thought stopping techniques in WT literature (Remember last weeks' study article? par.8)Group conformity and loyality to men and the ban on harboring private ideas on bible understanding? Welcome aboard. Becoming cognazant of the spiritual and emotional strings people use on us can be quite alarming at first, but in time can empower you to cut them when you're ready.And by the way,the WTBTS is in bed with the U.N. most of the R&F just aren't aware of it(YET):)

46

Jay Dubs right about 1914

by FrightMare in

jw
friends

please study this chart very, very carefully: http://www.sru.edu/depts/artsci/ges/d-3-2.htm.

why has such an unprecedented boom in population and technology occurred during the specific time the bible points to the 'last days', 1914?

wokeup

As far as technological advances in the last century are concerned, I give Thomas Alva Edison much credit. Whithout his historic contributions at the turn of the last century we probably wouldn't be here chatting now. In regards to population growth, the U.S. nuked the wrong country in WW2. Despite all that, many besides J.W's feel we are in the Last Days,remember,the Apostles thought they were too, they just didn't set dates. If no one knows the Day or Hour of our Lords' return anyway, 1914 is irrevelent.

33

Witnesses instructed not to harbor private ideas

by cyberguy in

jw
friends

today's watchtower lesson instructs witnesses not to think for themselves when it comes to bible understanding:.

augest 1, 2001, p. 14, par.

first, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned.

wokeup

Alarm bells went off in my head as well when I read this article. The 2nd paragraph makes the statement,"We recognize maturity in a person when we see discernment,insight,wisdom and so on." How can a mature person manifest this when he is 'encouraged' not to voice or harbor his conclusions? This is truly classic mind control technique. This reminds me of the previous weeks' study article on pg.9 par.8 where generalizations such as "they often,many feel and some" is concluded as 'all standards' in paragraph 10. another classic persuasion technique not discernable to most loyal dubs.

18

New to the Forum

by wokeup in

hi to all in the forum.

i am new here and would like to briefly share how i arrived here.

i was born and raised a witness.i'm in my 40's and married.i had some doubts as regards to some docrinal teachings and changes in the 80's.

wokeup

Nice to meet you arkangel,welcome to the forum. You'll find the discussions here quite stimulating.From thought provoking to plain silly at times.I too disagree as well with aspects of WT doctrine.It is a shame that the WTBTS is intolerant with freedom of thought and freedom of expression from its' members. Simular to totalitarian societies. Vilify,label and excommunicate those with differing opinions who opening voice themseives. Undoubtedly there are countless others who feel the way I do. I'm also quite aware with the fact that participation here is also grounds for disfellowshipping. These efforts by them is to squash the transmission of the truth about the trooth. The elders at the KH know who have computers and internet access.Those here locally paid me a friendly visit a couple years ago out of "concern" I might "stumble across apostate propaganda". What really stimulated my thinking was researching persuasion techniques used in selling things.I then got interested in researching the pschological and socialogical methods employed by individuals and Orgs after I had read an article stating the Scientologists employed those methods. To my surprise, I realized the WBTS utilizes them all the time.I thought if I was ignorant of them, what about all those with much limited education or blinded by years of indoctrination? It's a mistake to openly challenge the WBTS unless one is ready and prepared to live with the consequences at that moment.By the way, my observations have helped me to put my faith not in manmade organizations but in my Lord Jesus Christ.Look forward to your posts arkangel.........Allenin