Posts by Xander

11

How to get someone out of the JW's

by Help123 in

jw
friends

im writing because i have two sister in-laws that are faithful jw .

any kind of talk becomes to involved in that.

i guess from reading some of your comments.

Xander

If they get pissy whenever you talk about it, your options are limited.

Your best bet would be to ask for a 'study' and you pick the subject matter for it - carefully. Their 'study' program is designed with carefully suggestion questions they will have the answer for (of course). Stick around here, browse around the web, for the sticky points you can break their answers down with.

If they won't talk religion informally, that's your only option. And never present too much at once - the org brainwashes in certain defenses. One, obviously, you've already run into. The sudden dis-interest in talking religion when you argue a point. It feels like arguing with someone with their head stuck in the sand, doesn't it?

12

Inactive......??..and on this forum?

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

without the snapping jaws of the majority here, do any of you "inactive" people on this forum who read or might sometimes post, find this place welcoming or intimadating?

helpful or harmful?

is it a better or bitter place to be?

Xander

It was partly an honest question. What part of their religion has you convinced it is 'the truth'. I see nothing redeemable anywhere at all in their organization, so I'm curious what you think.

15

Why aren't you a believer?

by therealtruthsayer in

there were times in my life when i wondered to myself "am i making a mistake by leaving "jehovah"?

" at this point i know i have no doubts because why would a loving god kill everyone on earth who isn't a witness and i don't think that the true religion of god would be delivered to a white man in america.

that's why i'm no longer a believer.

Xander

Why would God only send true religion to whites and send the rest of us the wrong message?

LOLOL! Quite succinct, and yet, exactly true.

It's not that god only gave his message to a select few. Oh, no, that would be bad enough. But ALL the world has some religion. So, not only did he only give his message to a few, but then purposely misled the rest of the earth! (or allowed to be misled, just as bad if you are an all-powerful deity)

12

Inactive......??..and on this forum?

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

without the snapping jaws of the majority here, do any of you "inactive" people on this forum who read or might sometimes post, find this place welcoming or intimadating?

helpful or harmful?

is it a better or bitter place to be?

Xander

1) To answer your original question, I'm inactive RE: the witnesses. Have been....ohhh...about 2 years now. Yeah, that's my real picture (well, doctored a little...teeheehee). Yeah, this is my real name. I don't really care.

2) How on EARTH can you think they are the 'true religion'? Gods above, they can't even get christianity right, and that's assuming christianity is the 'right religion' in the first place! The JWs are so far off base with failed prophecies, blaming their members for their leaders mistakes, and general un-christian conduct, it's not even funny!

And let's not even talk about the relative merits (*cough*NOT*cough*) of christianity as a life choice....

32

A Story About Faith

by jgnat in

jw
friends

fiancee .

she paced back and forth, fiddling with her hands, fiddling with the ring.

"how can you just sit there so calm, so relaxed, so...unmoveable?

Xander

Far from 'fear' of the unknown. Lack of trust for the unknown, yes.

Note that what you are citing as examples is not the same as what the original poster said. RE:

have faith in her due to her past history of faithfulness and common sense

I have faith that they are not trustworthy in this matter because their history is an

Note that in both cases, you are basing your understanding on a PAST HISTORY. Reread the original post. That is not what they were advocating - what the original post comes out in favor of is blind faith - faith with no reason to believe.

In any case, if you have reason to believe something is true, it's probably not best to say you have 'faith' it is true, as that immediately implies you hope it is the case with no facts.

IE., it is not appropriate, given the definition of 'faith' as implied by this thread, to say "I have faith that they are not trustworthy in this matter" because what you have is not FAITH but EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE. Thus, it would be more appropriate to say: "I know that they are not trustworthy in this matter."

Indeed, Heb 11:1 goes along with this definition. In essence, the examples you gave may have been valid examples of 'faith' by one of its definitions, but it is NOT Heb 11:1 faith. Heb 11:1 faith defines, as a requirement "realities though not beheld", which means, faith without prior experience or reason.

6

Misconceptions of a "raised from birth&quo...

by Dawn in

jw
friends

having been raised as a jw - there were many things i was told and accepted as reality.

even after being df'd for some years i still kept these beliefs - it was not until i became a born again christian that i realized how narrow the view i held was.

perhaps some of you can relate to these small nuggets of the "reality of the world as seen by a jw".... * only a jw has a hope of the resurrection to look forward to when someone dies.

Xander

I think the life before vs after 1914 was a big one. Strange thing is, I think most JWs are aware of that disparity - if you asked your typical JW youth to young adult today if he'd rather be alive now or before 1914, he'd pick 'now' hands down.

I think you hit the big ones. ALL witnesses are trustworthy, worldlings don't have that. I'd add:

* JWs are always positive, and never have to deal with depression, since they have a bright hope for the future (worldlings have no future, so need shrinks)

* As an extension to the above: The more spiritual you are, the happier you are. Look at all the COs and DOs and fine examples in our literature! (worldlings have no relationship with god, so our never happy)

* JWs are a moral people. (worldlings live according to carnal desire, and have no morals except what is left over from what jah puts into them at birth)

* Worldlings may appear different, but they are really unified in their opposition to the true god (implied that they all KNOW the 'true way', and choose to forsake it for one reason or another. IE., they all know in their hearts that whatever religion they are currently practicing is somehow 'wrong')

* Worldlings are all unified in their opposition to JWs, and recognize us as a large, powerful, organization (this one really surprised me. As a JW, you thought, no, you were TAUGHT that you and your religion were the CENTER of the spiritual universe. The very core elements of an epic struggle of good vs evil around which the entire planet, galaxy, and everything revolved on your actions. That most the world don't even know who the JWs ARE, and a huge number of them never even having HEARD of JWs was a shocker. That they heard of us and were opposed, I expected. That they knew of us, but no specific details of the religion, I was willing to accept. That they have not even HEARD of the JWs was not something I could ever have anticipated. After all, this was an epic battle of right and wrong. How could you not even know that this was going ON? And that you were on the side of WRONG? And there WAS a side of right, and it was US? The only analogy I can think of would be if an Allied soldier walked into a bar in a 'liberated' part of Germany in 1945 and the bartender had no idea a war had been going on and had never heard of the US or Brittain or France. It just floored me.

9

Im just a boy disfellowship me

by elumn8 in

jw
friends

my babbygirl she was only 10 years older than i was and everyone looked at us weird... although i thought we just might have a chance at a great relationship... everyone hated her... said you don't know what you want son... and said i was only a boy.

how is it when i'm looking to get married i don't get encouraged... in fact i'm just not ready at all they tell me.

and to make this relationship work she moved 1000 miles here just to see me and everyone says nooo way is it going to work but although i was skeptical i knew we were the perfict match and although noone seemed to care or help when looking for some good possitive advise i decided to forget them all and we have lived a wonderful life for almost a year now.... dissfellowshipped for talking with a girl when i didn't have a full time job... so we moved intogether and got dissfellowshiped because nobody wanted to help us get a good start.... any advice?

Xander

Incidently, as an aside, when the wife and I were dating, I was only 17, so we got the wringer for it big-time. She had a lot of friends in our cong who stopped talking with her, we stopped getting invited over for witness gatherings, etc.

While we were never 'officially' disfellowshipped (at all, actually, as far as the cong knows, we're just really, REALLY inactive ), we were effectively so. It was so bad, the wife could not take it any more, and we ended up moving congregations. Didn't help any - the cong only 'love bombs' new members when they are STUDYING. If you are already baptized, when moving to a new cong, you're expected to just snap right in place, I guess.

We didn't, and that's what finally made her lose interest. She got a REAL dose of what their version of 'christian love' is like, 3 times in a row (the first was when her wordly grandma was dying, and she was the sole caretaker because her entire family - still in the area - were too busy going to meetings and such to help. That the congregation thus was friendlier to them, had them over for gatherings more, and helped them more than my wife as she missed meetings caring for her dying grandma, made her a little bitter. I think probably her being counselled for missing too many meetings just before her grandma actually died was a real slap in the face.)

Then, of course, what you are seeing here. The effective (or, in your case, actual) DFing for picking the 'wrong' mate. And, finally, not being able to be accepted anywhere.

Yeah, REAL 'christian love' these guys have. Given you believe the bible, how did Jesus say you'd recognize his followers? By the amount of time converting others? By the number of talks you give? By the sheer volumes of prophecies made in his name?

How did he say you'd recognize them?

9

Im just a boy disfellowship me

by elumn8 in

jw
friends

my babbygirl she was only 10 years older than i was and everyone looked at us weird... although i thought we just might have a chance at a great relationship... everyone hated her... said you don't know what you want son... and said i was only a boy.

how is it when i'm looking to get married i don't get encouraged... in fact i'm just not ready at all they tell me.

and to make this relationship work she moved 1000 miles here just to see me and everyone says nooo way is it going to work but although i was skeptical i knew we were the perfict match and although noone seemed to care or help when looking for some good possitive advise i decided to forget them all and we have lived a wonderful life for almost a year now.... dissfellowshipped for talking with a girl when i didn't have a full time job... so we moved intogether and got dissfellowshiped because nobody wanted to help us get a good start.... any advice?

Xander

My wife is eight years older than I. We've been married 5 years now, and certainly have had our share of problems, but I think, overall, we are doing quite well.

It's funny, for an org that teaches being good members is the ONLY way to a happy marriage...well...it would be truthful to say that 80% of the tension in our marriage went away when we stopped having to abide by their rules and could make our own that worked for us (roughly 2 years now).

The remaining 20% is mostly all financial issues, which wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if I DID have a better job. You know, the kind of job you could get if you were allowed to go to a real college? With the scholarship you turned down? Cause you were a good JW?

Oh, n/m.

Yeah, got out of there and really, REALLY, put it behind you. I mean, REALLY. Treat EVERYTHING they told you as a lie, and re-evaluate for yourself from scratch what you want to believe and not believe. I mean *EVERYTHING*. Your goals, sexuality, spirituality, how you live your day to day life, what is REALLY important, etc. (Having a beautiful park nearby will help a lot with this. Spend a lot of time sitting, thinking, and talking. For every belief you have, ask yourself WHY you have it, and if is worth keeping.)

You'll be surprised how much 'baggage' from being a JW keeps popping up from time to time, but, if you put it behind, you'll be a LOT happier.

32

A Story About Faith

by jgnat in

jw
friends

fiancee .

she paced back and forth, fiddling with her hands, fiddling with the ring.

"how can you just sit there so calm, so relaxed, so...unmoveable?

Xander

And yet, you advocate blind faith?

Surely you must have lived with a different human race than I, then?

Faith in a person or result without reason is not a safe course of action. "I have faith this will occur" seems an anathema to me. "I'll try to make this occur" is all I could offer.

70

WHERE DID ALL THAT WATER GO?

by MYOHNSEPH in

as i recall, "the society" at one time taught the flood waters of noah's day came from an immense canopy of water, which formed sometime during creation and hovered above the earth until it all broke loose in the flood.

o.k., cool.

but does anyone know of an explanation of where it all went afterwards?

Xander

Pfft, c'mon you heathens, don't you know god can do anything? He obviously added all those fake tree rings to those trees to make you think they were older than they were. And the mountains? Well, they just LOOK millions of years old, there really only a few centuries old. Silly heathens. So what if it doesn't make sense, god can change physics around whenever he wants and reverse any evidence of it happening, AND plant evidence to the contrary at the same time!

And, of COURSE he would plant so much fake evidence that all points to the same fake conclusion! Don't you understand, he wants to test your faith because he LOVES you!! And, you'd better stop believing everything all the evidence points to and start believing what we say, real soon! After all, god talks to us and us alone (make sure to sign your checks, please, thanks) and you'll burn in hell forever if you don't stop your doubting ways!