Posts by Bonsai

111

"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?

by cofty in

the children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.

he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.

if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.

Bonsai

I really like this thread. It has caused me to pause and think about what forgiveness really is and what it entails. I thought I knew, but now I'm not so sure. There is nothing I can say that others on this thread haven't so eloquently already written.

To forgive (stop dwelling on the offense and stop holding it against the one who committed the wrong) is to reaffirm good will to a person with a contrite heart who acknowledges his mistake and expresses regret. Any other kind of "forgiveness seems vacuous (new word for me) and lacks real feeling.

Seems to me that JW forgiveness is like getting beaten by a parent in scenario #2 and #3 where the parent looks forward to administering the punishment.

I'll give an example of religious forgiveness. The wife and I while dating, got a bit too intimate (nothing past 2nd base). I confessed to the elders and we had a kind of JC. We were contritely sorry and ashamed of our lack of chastity. The elders gave us private reproof and said we were forgiven. They then proceeded to say that since we were no longer exemplary, we could no longer use the hall for our wedding. It ended up hurting us financially to pay for a wordly wedding hall. Did they really forgive us? I don't think so. Like you said, it was just vacuous rhetoric which is mostly what religious "forgiveness" is. A pious, conditional, coerced forgiveness that has very little to no substance when examined deeply.

3

Japan / It's very hard for Elederly members to attend meetings

by nakanozzi in

original text http://ameblo.jp/minus-driver/entry-12043910833.htmlposted on june 28 2015on a kingdom hall in eastern part of osaka japan ederly members of the congregation have been able to use elevators to go up to the kingdom hall.recently they are all denied to use the elevators and directed to use the stairs.elerly people have difficulty to go upstairson their own .nobody help them.. eders and ministerialservants of the congregation do not help those elderly members.congregation have no money to pay the electricity billof the elevators.those rank and files who truly trusted the org.

are deeplyconcerned about the future..

Bonsai

Hajimemashite Nakanoji san. Kono foramu e yokoso oide kudasaimashita!

I've never heard of that problem in the area where I live. In my area, the witnesses here are very kind and helpful to the elderly. I have been to many different halls and I have never seen an elderly person left alone to tackle difficult stairs. In fact, witness volunteers are assigned on monthly rosters to take care of the elderly ones needs here.

I guess I'll have to check out the local hall here in Sapporo to see if the elevator works!

Sounds like a problem indigenous to Osaka. Osaka people are well-known for not having any patience and trying to pinch every dime and milk every penny (yen) that they can get their hands on.

I've got a long list of complaints, but their treatment of the elderly here isn't one of them.

111

"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?

by cofty in

the children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.

he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.

if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.

Bonsai

I'll think about it. Off to work...

111

"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?

by cofty in

the children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.

he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.

if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.

Bonsai

Some people are genuinely forgiving because of the way they were raised or because of their mild personality. I think that kind of natural forgiving disposition is a virtue. Others forgive only because Jesus commanded them to. In the latter I think this kind of forgiveness is just repressing their natural emotions to please a greater authority. Is this authentic forgiveness? It seems to be a coerced forgiveness to me. But if it keeps the victims from taking the law into their own hands (and possibly hurting innocent ones in the process) then it can be a good thing.

In the case of Roof: which kind of forgiveness are the victims displaying, a coerced forgiveness or a genuine one? I think with something this big - it seems to be the coercive, compulsive kind of forgiveness.

I mean, we are talking just 24 hours after the event! The loved ones body has just gone cold. "I forgive". Who says that naturally? Seems disrespectful to the slain ones to me.

Matthew 6:2 (NIV) "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."

I think this scripture can be applied with forgiveness as well. They can forgive in their heart without trumpeting it publicly.

45

Fun at The WT This Morning

by OneFingerSalute in

so ofs was at the wt this morning, and on par.

14 the question was, "what trust can a faithful christian whose relative is disfellowshipped have?".

after awhile when no one else raised their hands ofs did, and was called on.. ofs commented, "one of jw can have the trust that god will lovingly give them the ability to uphold the disfellowshipping arrangement by totally shunning family members.".

Bonsai

I don't know how you do it. In my case, just being there with them and studying that article, would make me shake with rage and disgust. I couldn't answer because I know I'd start to scream in the microphone and make myself look like an idiot. You must have incredible composure to do what you did.

111

"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?

by cofty in

the children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.

he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.

if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.

Bonsai

I think it's possibly a combination of emotions that caused them to say "we forgive". Perhaps they had just finished listening to a sermon that inspired them to say what they did. Perhaps they were saying what people (their Christian peers) wanted them to say publicly. Perhaps there is a mix of genuineness as well as a desire to play up to the media. There may still be repressed emotions of hatred, disgust and a vengeful rage that haven't surfaced yet. Some people react slowly when in shock. The anger comes later.

I do think that as the media fades down, and as time goes by, that forgiveness will fester into anger and righteous indignation and the burden of loss will cause them to wish Roof gets what he deserves.

14

We Lost Our Preaching MOJO, how do we get it back?

by skepticSam in

does anyone have any theories why our territory that's be reduced six or seven times over the last twenty years is not covered anymore?

we use to cover our area in less than six months and now nobody really keeps track of how the preaching work by territory is going.

is the advent of the mobile-literature machine why we don't see a zealous preaching spirit?

Bonsai

Their pet creation of their website has come back to bite them. I bet most JWs are thinking that they can just rely on the website to get the truth out to people. It no longer becomes imperative for them to physically go out and find people because everyone is so wired in to the internet these days.

28

pissed off my wife today at the assembly..I asked her why the bozo GB member lett has a pinky ring.

by goingthruthemotions in

so at the assembly to day that nitwit lett gave a talk....i noticed right away he had a pinky ring.

i asked my wife what was the purpose of the pinky ring?

and then asked....would jesus wear a pinky?

Bonsai

(Matthew 10:34-37) . . . Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother . . .

I never understood this scripture. When, while on earth, did Jesus ever put a sword or a division between any family? He treated believers and non believers with respect and humility. Sure, he hated hypocritical Pharisees who should've known better. But I don't understand why the JW religion thinks that this scripture gives them permission to treat disfellowshipped ones like fecal matter, and disassociate those who don't see eye to eye with their interpretations of the bible.

Maybe Jesus was referring to the time when the Romans would attack Jerusalem. Those that wanted to stay would try to force family and friends to stay as well... maybe even using violence and the sword to keep people from leaving.

30

The Verdict: God is Not Good.

by cappytan in

jw
friends

not sure if this video has been posted before here or not, but it is a powerful scene.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irfn2gdi.

i haven't watched the entire movie yet, but from this scene alone, i will be..

Bonsai

Fukushima. Let me tell you, that was a scary time. All of us (Jdubs and worldlies alike) thought we were going to get radiated from the plants. It was not god, but the heroic efforts of men that saved us. Many went in to keep cooling down the fuel rods knowing that they had a slow, miserable death awaiting them after that.

You can blame men for positioning those plants on the seacoast. But you can't blame men for a tsunami that came and killed indiscriminately. If God had somehow intervened, imagine how many secularists would have put faith in him! Sadly, he doesn't. So it should be no surprise that Japanese people don't have the time of day for building their faith in the invisible, all powerful, inactive apathetic god - a god who tries to prove a point(that we need him) by being invisible and inaccessible during our time of need.

18

Guess I said more than I should have about "the truth"

by paradisebeauty in

a sister came by my house today.

not to see how i was or why i have not been to meetings for the past months - she needed to borrow some money for the upcoming convention.

we chatted a little, and i cound not keep my mouth shut about some questions i have and some discoveries i made about the doctrine.

Bonsai

When I stopped going to meetings it shocked one of my friends to his core. I tried to be quiet about why I stopped as I wanted to play by the rules and not influence anyone's beliefs. Well, this dude just had to know why I stopped going. He was very persistent about wanting to know and he promised not to tell anyone. Not wanting to be a jerk, I told him a few simple reasons in confidence.. The dude turns around, tells the elders in his congregation, then the elders call the elders in my congregation to check up on me. Thankfully, they only came to warn me and no judicial action took place. But i feel very betrayed!

You can't trust any of them! They will rat you out without a second thought just to get a pat on the back (or a stroke) from the elders. Sick.