hey i have come to love some of the discussions on here and the information.
i am currently awake and have no plans to fade, in my case i am patient enough to in time become an elder to at least help the younger friends here in my area, in the sense of helping them wake up/if elder have their back..
Umm well, umm, I was an elder for a long time, and I was an awake elder for over a year. I had full intentions of bringing out my closest friends. But once they got a smell of I was not a true believer any more, I was on the outs. I was pitied and worried over like some lost soul. I could not help anyone.
Bob in NC
co want to talk to me.
first of all, i am very apologize for my english- i am studying this language nearly 2 years, so it's not that good yet, unfortunately.
also, it's my first topic.
I read good advice from all so far. I want to echo the advice already given by problemaddict not to go into the specifics. do not let them drag you into a conversation about how you feel about about the organiztion and the FDS. That always comes up.
Say you are not there to comment about anyone's relationship with Jehovah or claims, that you can speak only about yourself. Say that you do not have a message that you think needs to be heard, that you have personal issues that you already talked to the elders about that prevent you from speaking before the congregation. And that you are content to let the matters rest. You have to be somewhat content to let the matters rest simply because you cannot change the organization by attacking it locally. You could add, as you already mentioned, that you really don't want to talk about it any more.
I was similar to you, an elder a long time with many privileges in the Circuit. When I stepped down the CO also talked to me. He did not dig too much. He was most concerned and looking to see what threat I was going to be to the congregation. Once I relieved him of that concern he was done and ready to go. Bob in NC
do you think gb members are scared of each other in case they say or do something stupid?
(a la raymond franz).
uun.
I remember reading a few years ago a brother relating that he personally asked Lyman Swingle a question about something that had been bothering him. Brother Swingle became exasperrated and said to the effect, "Why are you asking me these things? Look it up The Watchtower...." Swingle either did not know or looked to The Watchtower as the answer-all to any question.
You gotta figure, most of these guys have to wonder who/where new light comes from and look at Russell, Rutherford, Franz as the oracles of understanding.
today's watchtower made out that the combining of branch offices around the world is a loving provision from jehovah to streamline the production, but i had to ask an elder afterwards, even though i already knew the answer.... "if the wts is selling off bethels and brooklyn property and cutting the publishing costs and commitments, then where is all that money going?".
elder replies, "well the donations are just not coming in anymore and so they have to sell off property to stay afloat.".
gee, i thought if this was jehovah's approved organisation carrying vital truth to the world, then he'd be making sure the donations would be sufficient.
I, for one, am glad to see it. Every corporation relies on steady income from its customers. The WT has obviously hit a snag. Their products are not in demand. The younger customer base is used to "information" being free or close to free. They are not going to pay for it. I am thinking Kodak, Poloroid, American Motors, and VHS movie players.
i know the question is long, but it has occured to me that there are a lot of newbies here but before that, many ex elders, some co and do's that are no longer jw's.... did the publishers comments at a jc about the misconceptions,dates, and lack of holy spirit, etc.
make sense to you and did you start thinking about the failed prophecies, fudging the "new light" etc.
which caused you to slowly fade away.. .
I did not fade because of anything someone said during a JC, but some things became evident to me because of holding JCs. The biggy, I realized that I had no Scriptural authority to require someone to meet behind closed doors with two other elders. If a publisher said "Thank you for your concern Brother Elder, but I do not wish to participate in a judicial meeting." What basis did I have to require it? None.
Another one that I find comical now. We had a somewhat borderline MServant begin to partake at the Memorial. The first time he partook, he drank the whole glass! The server had to come back to the platform to get more wine. HAHAHAHAHA!!! I poured another glass, all the while wondering who drank the whole thing. That brother was eventually DFd for another matter. After I left the Org, I called him up one day. He thought it was trap. But I assured him that I was no longer an elder and not attending the meetings. I told him that I just had to know why he drank the whole cup. Among other reasons, he said he did it to make a point, that he knew what the Bible said about partaking and he was not going to hold back any more. It's still funny.
i really am trying to get work done but can't stop thinking about this stuff.
anyway, remember job?
remember what god said to satan about job?
I am with you Capt. Something doesn't make logical sense in this story. Like it would turn out this way.......Jehovah speaking after the test. "Sorry Satan, but you lose. You done and killed him, so how do either of us know if Job would be faithful in ALL things? But he was faithful till you killed him, so I win by dafault" Satan, "Oh drats!! I didn't think of that." And Satan slinks off in defeat never to be heard from again.
Somehow it takes a thousand years of human suffering and death to "prove the point" that man cannot direct his steps without Jehovah. No wait! It takes 2 thousand, no 3 thousand, no 4 thousand, no 5 thousand, no 6 thousand years of human misery. And yet, the great court case in heaven has not be decided. So on we go.
jws are over 7.5 million.do they count unbaptised publishers as jws?do we know how many baptised jws are there today?.
I was the congregation secretary. I can say for sure that field service time slips are what makes up the count, not whether the publisher is baptized.
Does anyone recall a recent push to get publishers to turn in even 15 minutes, 1/4 hour so that they could be counted as a regualr publisher? That's what it's all about, counting "publishers" each month. In the yearly report you have the "peak publishers." That is the month when the highest number of publisher time slips were reported. Then you have "average publishers", which is the average number of publisher time slips reported each month for the year. If you stop turning in a field service report slip, the number goes down by one, baptized or not.
well here it is, my first post!
it feels like a huge step like the point of no return.
i am a born in, still in wanting to get out ms. i have refused eldership, used to pioneer and have sooo many stories.
I am glad to see that you got such a warm reception here. Advice about your wife. Here is what I did and I think this will help. Do not overload her with your doubts, but DO let her know that you have some doubts and that you have some research and prying to do. Take the humble meek approach. She will wonder what this is all about and you won't be acting like a seething apostate. Quite the contrary, you will still be a level-headed brother trying to do the right thing. But your progression towards the WT exit door can been obviously see as i one direction, even if done easily and carefully.
[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><![endif].
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].
good day...so this is the conversation i had with a co-worker of mine i mentioned in an earlier thread...shes a jw and doesnt know that i was associated with the jws before and that im a fader.
An idea! Tell her that you heard Fred Franz giving a speech on the internet and that you think he has a distinguished speaking voice. Then play her F Franz talking up 1975 at the District Convention.
not to start some form of popularity contests here but i was wondering how popular some people were?
how far did your network go in this organization?
this question also pertains to those who are actively fading..
Yep, I was popular. Well known throughout the Circuit and somewhat in the District. I was a lead character in about 10 District Convention dramas and gave many Circuit Assembly talks. I was actually a good speaker (lost my modesty) and congregations loved for me to be their visiting speaker. There was shock when I left.
As many have already noted in many posts, circuit level elders are horrible arrogant pompous donkey behinds. I still shake my head at what I learned working with circuit elders. Terrible men.
