Were part of nature, not seperate from it. So if we see God as nature, then we see ourselves as part of God, equal to God and more in control of the image of God.
whyhideit
JoinedPosts by whyhideit
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God is nature
by joelbear ini believe god is nature, which includes all of us and that god uses our sensory mechanisms to experience everything.
at some moments god can actually experience everything as one time.
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Are JWs loosing it?
by eyeslice inpersonally, i am more of a lurker than a poster, which i guess is because i am still very much on the fringes of the organization.
although many here have become bitter due to their experiences in the truth, i am sure that many of us look back on some really great times we had.
there was a time when there was a great feeling of optimism, new families (not just the odd individual here and there) were studying and coming along.
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whyhideit
There was this brother in my Kingdom Hall that I always enjoyed. He was a man of pure kindness and love, and taught me what it meant to be a man who looked for good in people and not bad, by the example he showed to others. My time in congregation positions, were often with him or with his example on my mind. Yet, he never served in any official position and yet unofficially he stood as an example to think about. He was just such a good man and a good example that I wanted to be more like him and not like some of the arrogant ones in the organization I knew as well. I watched this man age, and I always looked forward to one day seeing him grow younger. I felt this was possible, as the end was supposed to happen at any moment. My friend grew older and older, and soon one day I spoke at his memorial and spoke of his accomplishments and years of life. The time that was never supposed to come, came. The time that was supposed to come soon, didn't. Did that take the joy out of my sails, to see my friend and mentor grow old and pass into death? Well it certainly did not make my faith grow stronger.
I give this example, as I think many of the older ones in the congregations are passing away, when so many thought they wouldn't. The years tell no lies, and with their passing comes the death of faces we thought would make it to the end. These losses revealed the real truth of the organization and darkened the love our hearts once held for the end to come. We no longer believe in the promise of paradise, and start to realize the absolute of what life really brings.
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Do not blame the workers in the field
by whyhideit inoften when discussing with jehovah's witnesses the problems of the organization, it is common for them to say they think you are lying.
they may feel in some way or another that you have fallen away from the pure light, and have become blinded to jehovah, and opened your eyes to satan's false teaching.
these words, and the thinking i have expressed, should sound very familiar to any reader who has spent time in the organization.
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whyhideit
I don't believe one needs to know the complete "big picture" to know that things are not right. These men are spiritually lazy and cowards if they refuse to be honest and seek answers and solutions to the problems that people in their care are facing.
Yeah they may be men in a factory that don't know they are building a nuclear bomb but if they put 2 and 2 together they should be able to know that they aren't just making stuffed toys for little kids.
One factor that can not be ignored, in Jehovah's Witness leadership, has got to be pride and power. In that the elders and Circuit Overseers have worked hard to get to their prominent positions in the organization. In doing so, many enjoy the stature that such a position gives them in the Witness community. All the praise, and extra attention feeds the ego and the desire to want more and more. When a minority see these problems, in part, it could be possible that they are willing to overlook out of faith or they overlook out of pride. Either way, I agree that some should know what is happening and see the wrong. I just feel that some enjoy their higher up positions of authority to much to desire any real change, and figure as long as they have what they want and need, why rock the boat and chance losing it. To do so, would be a honorable thing. I think that is why I thought a lot of Raymond Franz. He was on the top of the world, in a Witness-setting, yet he gave it all up and wrote a book to reveal it to the world and lost all the power and privelege he once enjoyed. Like his book said, it was a "Crisis of Conscience." Perhaps this crisis has not hit some of the elders and Circuit Overseers yet. Although, we must note, that some have left for this reason.
I do feel though, that despite what a few elders might know. The general population of publishers, elders, and Circuit Overseers know very little. It could be selective memory, dumb luck, or just pure chance, but they just might not hear about any of the true truths that are available out there to them. Not to underestimate the power of fear and brainwashing, as well.
Edited by - whyhideit on 21 December 2002 13:28:29
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Do not blame the workers in the field
by whyhideit inoften when discussing with jehovah's witnesses the problems of the organization, it is common for them to say they think you are lying.
they may feel in some way or another that you have fallen away from the pure light, and have become blinded to jehovah, and opened your eyes to satan's false teaching.
these words, and the thinking i have expressed, should sound very familiar to any reader who has spent time in the organization.
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whyhideit
Outlaw
That is a profound statement, as I think there are a percentage in the organization that know what is happening and remain silent. Worse yet, they practice what they have learned is wrong and do not allow their new found knowledge to change them. As a perspective on this though, we have to remember the central power to the Jehovah's Witnesses organization. That power being, fear. Fear that acting on change could lead to loss of family, friends and if they have not fully accepted otherwise, "the fear that they will loss favor with Jehovah and die at Armageddon." From the point you mention, and what I have seen. This is an example of a spiritual cockroach trap. In which the victim crawls in, drawn by the smell of something sweet and inviting. Yet once they are in deep they are stuck and the escape is no longer possible, without the loss of limbs or life. I could only imagine the mental turmoil and anguish of these people, to know better and yet being afraid to do anything about it. Very sad state of being.
I do think that such a Witness is a minority, and the majority of individuals, congregations and elders know every little of the whole picture.
Edited by - whyhideit on 21 December 2002 12:31:41
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Do not blame the workers in the field
by whyhideit inoften when discussing with jehovah's witnesses the problems of the organization, it is common for them to say they think you are lying.
they may feel in some way or another that you have fallen away from the pure light, and have become blinded to jehovah, and opened your eyes to satan's false teaching.
these words, and the thinking i have expressed, should sound very familiar to any reader who has spent time in the organization.
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whyhideit
Gary,
I know exactly what you mean, I was just presenting a different view. I enjoy comparing thoughts on subject like this. It teaches us that not everything is as it seems.
Elsewhere,
I don't think I am paranoid, but now you have me wondering, and wondering.
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Do not blame the workers in the field
by whyhideit inoften when discussing with jehovah's witnesses the problems of the organization, it is common for them to say they think you are lying.
they may feel in some way or another that you have fallen away from the pure light, and have become blinded to jehovah, and opened your eyes to satan's false teaching.
these words, and the thinking i have expressed, should sound very familiar to any reader who has spent time in the organization.
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whyhideit
Gary,
I see your point and I understand what you mean. Basically, you see these things as terrible because you are no longer in the organization and it seems plain and simple to you. I just know that not every Witness knows as much as you and I. When they do learn this information, or start the process of educating themselves, it normally takes them out of the organization. When they do the terrible things you mentioned, they do honestly think they are in the right to snub and shun you. They think there is a Bible basis for the blood issue, as they believe what the Society teaches them. Most Witnesses have no clue about the pedophiles, and found the information presented in the media as APOSTATE (That is sad ). When a time comes that they do learn this information, and still continue in their hurtful ways. I will then see them different. I appreciate your view point, it is helpful for understanding the bigger picture myself, of the Ex-Jw's feelings.
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Do not blame the workers in the field
by whyhideit inoften when discussing with jehovah's witnesses the problems of the organization, it is common for them to say they think you are lying.
they may feel in some way or another that you have fallen away from the pure light, and have become blinded to jehovah, and opened your eyes to satan's false teaching.
these words, and the thinking i have expressed, should sound very familiar to any reader who has spent time in the organization.
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whyhideit
The Elders do not know what is happening in every corner of the world, and they are told only what is needed to keep their little space of it happy and progressive. The congregation members, in my opinion, do and say what they do out of a lack of information and not out of malicious intent. To assume that six million people are a bunch of sadistic people, bent on harming the world, does not fully explain to me the situation and their actions. The Witnesses do as they do, because they are not informed enough to know otherwise. Same goes for the elders, and circuit overseers. Had they known both sides and the complete picture, and then done the actions of their life. I would feel different.
Edited by - whyhideit on 20 December 2002 19:42:15
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Do not blame the workers in the field
by whyhideit inoften when discussing with jehovah's witnesses the problems of the organization, it is common for them to say they think you are lying.
they may feel in some way or another that you have fallen away from the pure light, and have become blinded to jehovah, and opened your eyes to satan's false teaching.
these words, and the thinking i have expressed, should sound very familiar to any reader who has spent time in the organization.
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whyhideit
Often when discussing with Jehovah's Witnesses the problems of the organization, it is common for them to say they think you are lying. They may feel in some way or another that you have fallen away from the pure light, and have become blinded to Jehovah, and opened your eyes to Satan's false teaching. These words, and the thinking I have expressed, should sound very familiar to any reader who has spent time in the organization. The point we often forget though, in our post-Witness life, are that these people are correct from the small amount of knowledge they posses.
Take for example a country that wants to build a nuclear bomb. They may have one part built in the north that looks innocent to the builder, another part in the south that looks like a toy or object that is not dangerous, another part built in the east that looks like some kitchen tool, and still another part in the west that looks like a part for a boat motor. Each factory is told only what they need to know, to make the part they are working on. The government may even place production goals before them, and reward them for hard work in a way that promotes them above others. Which works off of self-esteem and pride, which develops into loyalty. If you took one person from each location and interviewed them separately, and then said "did you know you were building pieces to a bomb?" Most likely they would argue with you, and not believe your comments. Why? Because they only see what little piece they work on, and that piece could never cause the harm you are describing. These pieces are then shipped to one central location, where only a small group of people assembles them, and have the true knowledge of what the products entailed. This type of organization, is an example of "strategic placement of duties and knowledge." Meaning, by only showing people the small pictures, they could never focus on the larger picture that is unfathomable to their limited knowledge base.
In the Witness religion this is seen in the authority and congregation structure. The Governing Body members make decisions in a fashion mentioned by Raymond Franz, behind closed doors. These are only seen and explained to those, on a need to know basis. These actions affect the Overseers who deliver these directions to the congregations under the pretense of divine enlightenment. The elders then discuss these issues under the thought that they are "mature enough" to handle the information, and are obligated to not share the information with the average publisher. In fact, they are told that people "spiritually mature" must first prove themselves before being handed these elder responsibilities. With a strong value being placed on " confidential talk." The elders in Canada do not share thoughts with elders in Texas, with elders in Florida or elders in New York. So they too, do not know what is happening around the world. Circuit Overseers do not call, and are not encouraged to do so, other Circuit Overseers from around the world to compare notes and ask question. In the case of the elders, Circuit Overseers and other branch positions, the recommended method is to call headquarters and speak to the main offices. Why?
By doing so, no one man or congregation could ever see the over all understanding of the organization. The information could then be filtered, reworked and corrected to be published into magazines that make it seem that such desires to know more are, you've guessed it "Satan's false teachings." This type of movement of information is common, when you are trying to control people. The key to controlling the masses, lies in controlling the news medias and other lines of communication. This is seen currently in the country of China, where they are trying to stop the spread of the Internet into their borders.
So when you are sitting down to eat with a Witness relative or friend and you make a statement like, "what do you think about the UN connection with Jehovah Witnesses?" Do not be surprised to see a blank look, followed by the warning signs of apostate information. This is not because they know this information, and want to forget it. It is because their small piece of work, their individual pieces to the over all bomb, does not give them enough material to work with to come to the conclusions your new life has allowed you.
The individual factories are running all around us. In the individual members of the Witness faith, in the congregations, the circuits and in the world's countries. The bomb building will go on, and the people will remain none the wiser, unless they quit the factories and step back to see what was being produced the whole time. Remember, do not blame the workers, as they really think they are doing a good job. Perhaps they are wanting to achieve, "employee of the month"
Edited by - whyhideit on 20 December 2002 18:9:39
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Do you still expect to live eternally?
by JH insince leaving the watchtower, do you still believe that you will live forever, here on earth?
some might think that heaven is the final destiny, while other may just believe in this short life and nothing else.
what is your belief and how does it affect your daily life?
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whyhideit
It is not so important to me to debate on whether I live forever on earth, heaven or in a form that exist beyond this life. What is important to me, is that I actually live my life now and do not spend my time in a mood of frustration and confusion that takes away the value that really is our short life to LIVE!
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Lott resigns...
by kelsey007 inmy question is "why are'nt the democrats jumping on bush's hipocracy as well?
they certainly need all the fuel they can get before 2004. it was bush that stood before an open mike and by name called someone a "major league asshole.
" the demos need to be applying pressure at every leval if they hope to gain in 04. are they scared to speak out?
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whyhideit
Never allow the media to blind you so much on an issue that you do not take the time to see the bigger picture. Basically, what one man said was in POOR taste. Yet to say he is the only one who has made this mistake and should be punished, is pure ignorance. If we want to be outraged, then let us at least know the whole story and see that individuals in both parties have done the same thing and then judge them all in the same fashion. Singling one man out, smells of political character assassination.