a question: how does an elder move ahead?
what i mean is my father has been an elder for over 20 years and as far as i know he has never been offered any high profile jobs, co etc, never gotten to give the big talks at assemblies, etc, i was just wondering is there some type of politics that goes along with it?
Azalo,
From what I've seen, if you are a 'nobody' (no major family connections in the 'truth'), you need to grovel an awful lot and be willing to bend over backwards at all times. You must never, ever question anything and keep your mouth shut at all times. If you are a 'somebody' (great-grandad, grandad, dad all elders. Aunts, uncles, mum, sisters etc all pioneers), you will get somewhere eventually. It's not what you know, but who you know.
Just my opinion
xxR
in response to a previous post of mine about internet file sharing, a poster by the name of brad (anti-absolutist or something) told me that he's not suprised i "steal music files" as from my my previous posts he felt i'd been trying to steal the spirit out of this forum for a while now, and that he despised me more than jws, as my form of reasoning, he felt, was even more shallow than theirs.
admittedly i disagree with alot of posters here and will at times post pro jw posts as i see fit from my perspective.
some here choose not to answer any of my posts, some will and will mainly say i'm mis-informed to some extent, which is fine by me as that is what an open forum is about.
Scooby,
Just thought I'd let you know, I think you come across as a decent guy.
I don't agree with any of your views on the WTS, but that's ok, cos you don't agree with any of mine either.
So lets agree to disagree. You seem to be able to take critisism very well and that's a great quality to have.
I'm pretty mixed up most of the time, so I don't know what most on this board think of me. They probably groan every time I post, but I don't really care. You shouldn't either. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I disagree with you regarding downloading music. I view it as stealing, but I seem to be in the minority. Again - I don't care.
Sweet dreams - I'm off to bed.
xxR
one of the main things that hits you when you leave the jw's is that maybe you haven't got all the answers like you once thought, so you begin to question everything, wouldn't you agree?.
well, my eyes were opened to the prospect of living in heaven, and not on earth like the dubya's preach.
i have listened to plenty of audio files from people that have left the witnesses and have became born again and if that floats your boat then thats great !
SixofNine,
I think that is what Hamas wants to do - to research how we got the Bible. Like you say - it is pointless trying to work out what it means and what God is trying to say to us, if we are not sure if it is from God in the first place. It is quite a deep subject and will take months of research, or even years, but I have reached a point where I can't just go on accepting what other people tell me - I need to find out for myself.
I am so grateful for the Internet. It is such a fantastic tool and will make the research so much easier.
Hamas, let me know how you get on with Gumby's info. I am really interested in finding out as much about the history of the Bible as possible.
xxR
one of the main things that hits you when you leave the jw's is that maybe you haven't got all the answers like you once thought, so you begin to question everything, wouldn't you agree?.
well, my eyes were opened to the prospect of living in heaven, and not on earth like the dubya's preach.
i have listened to plenty of audio files from people that have left the witnesses and have became born again and if that floats your boat then thats great !
Hamas,
I am in exactly the same situation as you. I am slowly fading away from being a JW and I am looking at my old pre-JW beliefs (I was RC before). I have seen evidence to support the Trinity, plus evidence to refute it. There are scriptures that back it up, and others that prove it is not true. It is so confusing. I also find so many contradictions with the Bible that I didn't see as JW. The thing is, I really want to believe in the Bible. It has been with me all my life, as a RC and as a JW. To find out now that it may not be true is really hard to deal with.
How do others deal with this? What is there for us to put faith in if we don't have the Bible? I have been doing some research into the Bible's history, including all the books that were not included. It seems that, until roughly 150 years ago (maybe a little longer) there were 80 books, but that figure seems to have been whittled down to 66. Also, if you go way back, there were hundreds of books that could have made it into the Bible Canon, but for one reason or another they were rejected. I would like to know why. It seems it was just the decision made at the time - the Bible could well have 100, 200 or 300 books if it wasn't for a decision made way back when. Maybe the correct books were rejected and the wrong ones included - who knows?
What I am trying to say is I don't know what to believe any more. At least, as a JW, I felt I had all the answers. Now I have nothing and I am more confused than ever. My husband still insists the JWs have it right and he thinks I am putting myself at risk by rejecting their message. I just don't know.
Just needed to get that off my chest.
xxR
to be more specific did this have a negative effect with your believing family?
is this viewed the same as df'ing?
i don't know if i can stay associatted with this organisation anymore after the things i've seen them do and seen what they are responsible for.
be wise & rocketman,
If ever you get an unnanounced visit, just stay cool, don't get annoyed, smile, be polite but make it obvious that you have no interest whatsoever in what they are saying. Let them know that you are very busy and have important things to do. If you are actually spending the day chilling out doing diddly, just make something up - tell them you have an urgent errand to attend to. If you do this every time they come round, they will soon get really fed up and leave you alone. Don't forget, act REALLY disinterested in what they are saying. Make sure you have great difficulty concentrating and following their line of reasoning. Ask them to repeat themselves again and again and then keep changing the subject. Be really vague - as if your mind is miles away. Say things that have got nothing to do with the subject being discussed. They will get so exasperated that they won't want to visit you again.
xxR
i would term it an outright act of selfishness for any witness to own a two door car.
how can that person expect that car to perform as an efficient source of spreading the good news when the fact is that is really disfunctional.
quite acceptable for going to meetings, but what about witnessing in the rurals?
Cheeses,
This was a sore point in my old congregation. We had quite a few elderly ones and one sister would have a fit about those who owned 2-door cars. She said she could not possibly get in and out of them and the brother/sister in question was being selfish. If ever she was assigned to a 2-door car, she would always sit in the front passenger seat, even if there were other elderly ones in the group. Now that's what I call selfish!
xxR
to be more specific did this have a negative effect with your believing family?
is this viewed the same as df'ing?
i don't know if i can stay associatted with this organisation anymore after the things i've seen them do and seen what they are responsible for.
be wise,
Why not just drift away? Why should you have to make any sort of statement about leaving? If you were going to any other church, you could come and go as you please. As rocketman mentioned, if you DA yourself, you are doing things on their terms. I have been asked recently by a few JWs from my old congregation whether I am coming back to meetings. I just tell them that I know where the KH is and, if I ever feel I want to, I will come along. This usually shuts them up as they know I don't wish to discuss anything with them - it is none of their business. Basically, if you want to go to the KH - just go. If you don't want to go - don't go.
If ever the elders force me to make a decision one way or another, I will still refuse to do so. I have done nothing that warrants disfellowshipping and, if they ever made an announcement about me in the KH, I would threaten them with legal action for slander. I don't know if I would have grounds, but I would threaten them just the same. They have no right to make derogatory announcements about me in front of a large group of people who have known me for years. I am not sure what the legal angle on this is, but I would not take it lying down.
Whatever you decide to do, do what YOU want, and not what they want you to do. Don't make things easy for them. If I am pushed, I intend to cause as much hassle as possible. If they leave me alone, I will leave them alone.
Just my thoughts.
xxR
i was still an elder and i was present at the elder's school about three years ago when it was announced that the pao program would be re-introduced (it was evidently in practice some years before).. the program was a problem from day one.
it was very hard pairing publishers with pioneers.
publishers who were approached and asked to participate felt that they were being thought of as "weak".
Hi rocketman,
My son and daughter were on this programme. My son worked with the assigned pioneer roughly 6 or 7 times and my daughter only worked with the pioneer once because this sister (a really obnoxious wife of an elder) didn't like her or think she was spiritual enough. She used to make arrangements to work with others and then pretend that she had completely forgotten to contact my daughter. She would also say she had tried to contact my daughter but the phone had been engaged which was a lie. My daughter was quite hurt about it at the time.
xxR
calls me on the phone, he knows me from sitting in on my studies.
others notice his behavior but nothing has been done.
the other day i saw him in my movie theatre staring at me smiling.
hubby will be in from the memorial soon.
he was annoyed that i didn't go.
i am not looking forward to his return.. wish me luck guys.
Thanks for your good wishes - things weren't as bad as I thought they would be.
I am so glad I didn't go. I was reading Wednesday's post, and I know I would have been treated the same and I am a coward and couldn't go through with it.
Rocketman - thanks for your post. I do try to see things from hubby's point of view. I know it was difficult for him to go without me for the first memorial I have missed in 18 years, but I am still glad I didn't go. It sort of feels like I am more free, in a strange sort of way.
xxR