Posts by logansrun

74

Being a JW Woman - Was It Really That Bad?

by eljefe in

jw
friends

i have seen quite a few posts from many ex-jw women about how unhappy they were about male domination in congregation.

was it really that bad?

when i was still a jw, no one ever told me anything to that effect.

logansrun

It had nothing whatsoever to do with my decision to leave. I think women should be put in their proper place.

Bradley

38

Unless you believe in "spirit(s)" you cannot be "spiritual"

by logansrun in

jw
friends

upon a fine conversation with a good forum member last night i started to think about the meaning of the word spiritual.

many people, including some agnostics and atheists, use this word with some regularity.

"i'm not religious, but i am spiritual" is something even i have said.

Upon a fine conversation with a good forum member last night I started to think about the meaning of the word spiritual. Many people, including some agnostics and atheists, use this word with some regularity. "I'm not religious, but I am spiritual" is something even I have said. People talk about the "spiritual experience" of walking along the ocean, of being with a loved one, of art -- even of sex! This brings up a very important question, though: What is spirituality?

I posit that, unless you actually believe in some form of incorporeal Spirit -- either God, a soul, the "Force", etc. -- it is not correct to use the word spiritual at all. All the experiences I listed in the above paragraph -- nature, friendship, art, sex -- are physical/emotional experiences. The only way one can say that there is a "spritual" dimension to them is if there actually is some sort of spirit! There may or may not be, but belief in a spirit realm on some level seems to be the only way one can legitimately use the word spritual (spirituality, etc).

So, instead of saying that your walk in the Grand Canyon was a "spiritual experience" the proper thing for a disbeliever in spirit to say is that it was a "very moving, emotional/aesthetic experience." Yes?

Does anyone disagree?

Bradley

29

What makes people really excel?

by formerout in

jw
friends

i was just watching nightline (i think it was) with diane sawyer.

the stars from ocean's twelve were on there.

i am not a person who normally gives too much praise to celebs or athletes but these guys/gals (brad pitt, catherine zeta-jones, andy garcia, george clooney, matt damon and don cheadle) were pretty brilliant.

logansrun

I think there are a variety of reasons, most of which have been mentioned. Also luck -- simply being in the right place at the right time.

Oh, but that simply is outward excellence. What about inward excellence? Take a look at Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's book "Flow" and you will see that humans can have "peak experiences" no matter what path in life they have chosen/been thrust into. It's a fascinating work.

Bradley

27

What "cult-like" practices have you noticed with Born-Again Christians?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i recently went to a "pentacostal church" with my neighbor who has been a devout pentacostal for 30 years.

she has been asking me for years to come to her church since i left jw's so i finally went with her a few sundays ago.

i must admit i was nearly scared "speechless".

logansrun

There's no question that "cult" can mean different things to different people. I think that the ideology the group espouses is just as critical as whether or not they deceptively recruit people. Hell, I've been deceptively recruited into forking over money to salesman for things I don't really need, somehow I don't look upon that as being as detrimental as believeing in a totalistic belief system which includes the roasting of humans -- FOREVER!

Bradley

23

Another "Brother" Murders his family!!!

by ohiocowboy in

this is happening so often now, it is getting very sickening.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-harvey01.html.

family of three murdered in harvey .

logansrun

What a tragedy. My heart goes out to the family.

Nevertheless, isn't there quite a bit of speculation here? I mean, why don't we just blame the elders for this tragedy? How does anyone know that the elders asked them to "work things out" and prevent her from getting a seperation? Honestly, no one here knows the particulars of the case, at least not the "Witness" side to it.

My mother seperated from my father before they eventually got a divorce. There was no physical abuse at all, but there was some verbal abuse (which, to be frank, was not what some people would even consider "abuse"). Yet, the elders did not prevent her from getting a seperation. Wow. Who'da thunk it?

As for this being a common occurance (as is implied in the title thread) -- the JWs are not that small of a religion. In the US there are about a million members, with many others with quasi-Witness affiliations (sometimes people that say they are JWs are, in fact, not baptised). I'm not a statistician, but it doesn't seem like the JWs experience any more murders/heinous crimes than any other religion.

Bradley

27

What "cult-like" practices have you noticed with Born-Again Christians?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i recently went to a "pentacostal church" with my neighbor who has been a devout pentacostal for 30 years.

she has been asking me for years to come to her church since i left jw's so i finally went with her a few sundays ago.

i must admit i was nearly scared "speechless".

logansrun

The term, "born-again" means different things to different people. If by "born-again" you are refferring to fundamentalist Christians (ie, most "evangelicals") then I think that many do in fact engage in cultish thinking. Absolutistic thinking (such as, "You must accept Christ or you're going to Hell!" and "the Bible is the infallible and literal Word of God!") definitely is an aspect of any cult, whether or not the cult is "organization" in nature or not. Most conservative Christians, I hate to say, engage in such cult-like thinking all the time.

B.

5

Zen snow

by logansrun in

jw
friends

the scene outside my window is truly a delight.

last night a light snow fell and the trees, barren of leaves, are now cloaked in white.

the sun reflects off the ground and everywhere there is light.

logansrun

The scene outside my window is truly a delight.

Last night a light snow fell and the trees, barren of leaves, are now cloaked in white.

The sun reflects off the ground and everywhere there is light.

The air is calm, the sky cloudless blue.

Winter is right.

B

23

The subtle distancing of my Witness past....

by logansrun in

jw
friends

hello folks,.

it has been said by many long-time ex-witnesses that the greatest stage of "healing" we can go through is when we feel like an ex-ex-jehovah's witness.

more and more i have been feeling this way.

logansrun

gumby,

Hell no it does no good to complain....but that doesn't lessen the pain.

Actually, complaining tends to make the pain worse. Have you ever had a bruise or cut that really hurt and then were totally distracted by something else. You probably didn't even feel the pain when your mind was distracted. The same thing is true with emotional pain. Our emotions follow our thoughts and our actions. Complain, think about the past, talk to others about how "sorry" your condition is and you will feel more pain. I'm not talking about grieveing in the intitial stages of experiencing a loss, I'm talking about the point in our lives when it's years later. So, in actual fact, not complaining will lessen the pain. If you say it does no good to complain, why are you complaining?

Some grieve for 40 years and some for 2 years....everyones different. To expect all and everyone to 'get on with it' is narrow thinking I'm afraid.
I get on with it the best I can, but emotions are emotions and they don't lie.

First off, I absolutely acknowledge that there is a "grieveing process" in any loss which is equal to the loss we experience. It's normal, healthy and necessary to do so. Nevertheless, any good psychologist will tell you that to go overboard and live in the past is not healthy after a while. Take the case of people who lose their mates. I've seen some who, when faced with the death of their loved one, end up in the grave not long after their wife/husband dies. I've seen others who, after some time to heal, are able to get on with life, acknowledge their loss occassionally, and go forward. Which would you rather be?

We can control our emotions as long as we are not in a clinically neurotic or psychotic state. Emotions tend to follow our thinking and language, both internal and external. Do emotions lie? I don't know. I do know they are not always a very reliable guide. I also know that they can be nudged in a positive direction through our efforts. Do you want to give that effort, gumby?

B.

23

The subtle distancing of my Witness past....

by logansrun in

jw
friends

hello folks,.

it has been said by many long-time ex-witnesses that the greatest stage of "healing" we can go through is when we feel like an ex-ex-jehovah's witness.

more and more i have been feeling this way.

logansrun

I respectfully acknowledge those ex-JWs who are here for humanitarian reasons. It's great. My personal feelings are that there is so much information out there, and there are so many ex-JW forums that I don't feel the great need to help those who are newly out. I view the "JW-ex-JW" world as being a sort of revolving door of those who need help and those who give it. There was a time when I needed help and I have reciprocated as well. There will always be people with shoulders for crying on, thank God. Just make sure that you can wipe it off every now and then.

B.

23

The subtle distancing of my Witness past....

by logansrun in

jw
friends

hello folks,.

it has been said by many long-time ex-witnesses that the greatest stage of "healing" we can go through is when we feel like an ex-ex-jehovah's witness.

more and more i have been feeling this way.

logansrun

gumby,

If family and friends were not issues in exiting the borg.....I could see one moving on.

So, what is the alternative then, gumby? To be a "recovering" ex-JW, forever "healing" and in need of "processing" the past till we are lying horizontal in a box with a lily in our hands? Yes, the loss of friends and family (which I have experienced) is a tragedy. But, if we focus, talk about, brood over and protest over the tragic aspects of our lives -- on a daily basis even! -- we will diminish or miss out completely on the part of our lives that have joy, meaning and potential.

If someone loses the use of their legs and has to live in a wheelchair do you think it does them any good to constantly talk about the very real tragedy they have experienced in their lives? Or do they...get on with it? After an initial amount of processing I feel we simply have to get tough with ourselves. I know that sounds brutish and crude, but it's the truth. For our own good we need to muster the fortitute and attitude to be able to really deal with this, more likely than not, unchangeable aspect of our lives. We can say to ourselves: "Well, my friends and family are misled and wrongly shun me. Tough shit! I'm going to live my life and grow with or without them. I love them and am happy they are well, but I don't absolutley need them either."

It's been an axiom since the Greeks or even before -- your life will follow what you think and talk about. Focusing on the past and current pain in our lives will only increase our pain and make us bitter and stuck in our "grieveing" rut.

B.