Posts by Vee

76

STOP Talking to Your Family OR ELSE!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

" (the watchtower july 1st 1963 issue, page 411).

" (the watchtower july 1st 1963 issue, page 413).

" (the watchtower july 15th 1963 issue, page 446).

Vee

Thanks very much for taking the time to research and post all of this information. Just further affirmation for most of us I imagine. The following section (have pasted below) in particular cracked me up the most. It is the most f'ing hillarious things ever, and opitimises the WTBS indoctrination, putting words in their mouths techniques. I remember myself chanting those very words right through primary school, highschool and then when I started working. Amazing that people who "so obviously" think so clearly for themselves should need a reminder as to their specific motivations for initially being drawn to the faith, so as to build a case should there be anyone demanding of them a defense for their faith???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Many try to portray the beliefs and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses as dogmatic and restrictive. When answering questions about your religious beliefs and practices, emphasize the fact that you have formed your beliefs and adopted your practices after much study and reflection your religion is not simply a matter of rules which have been imposed by the elders. You want to emphasize the fact that you are a thinking, well-balanced, and reasonable individual who is competent to act as a parent. Avoid any response which gives the impression that you are unwilling or unable to provide for your child's best interests because of your religious beliefs." (Preparing For Child Custody Cases Booklet published by Jehovah's Witnesses)

Love V**

28

What was Your Fave Cartoon as a Kid?

by Pleasuredome in

mine was.... edited by - pleasuredome on 22 december 2002 15:40:33.

Vee

Without hesitation ASTROBOY ASTROBOY cause he's "stronger than all the rest..."!! I used to get teary in the opening scene where he would save those funny looking twiddlebug things from up on the powerlines, and when Astro found out that he was Atlas's brother, oh my god!!!...was a very strange lil kid! I happened to watch an episode at my bro inlawaws place a couple of years ago for a touch of nostalgia, but as is always the case with childhood memories they're best left where they are. Unfortunately us adults don't have the same sense of adventure and imagination that we once did, then there's also the outdated technology factor...

There was also this cartoon series that ran for a couple of years called something like the golden eagle, was set in the inca times and I was mesmorised by it.

Wizard of Oz wasn't bad, and never ending story even though it wasn't exactly a cartoon.

Second fav though would be inspector gadget...and all those short little cartoons inbetween that filled in between shows like Danger Mouse, Super Ted, Roger Ramjet.

Is a damn shame they don't play more of the "mouldy old" WB cartoons, but I guess they just wouldn't get the respect and the appreciation they deserve...that's all folks!!

V**

27

How the West sacrifices the rest

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

sometimes you can only shake your head:us blocks cheap drugs agreement.

the united states has blocked an international agreement to allow poor countries to buy cheap drugs.

one-hundred and forty-three countries stood on the same ground, we were hoping to make that unanimous.

Vee

Expatbrit, if you don't mind saying...out of personal interest what is your field, area of expertise, or what area is it that you have studied in, if at all? V**

Edited by - Vee on 21 December 2002 12:37:28

15

My dilemma

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i have been associated with the jws all my life, recently turning 50 years old.

i was a true believer, a hard working elder, very zealous for the truth, a pillar in the congregation, and a fine speaker and teacher.

i even served in an extremely difficult foreign land for a while with my family.. i always knew we had our problems, but felt that it was my responsibility to effect change from within.

Vee

Dear Brother,

One thing that I have learned over the past year is that I have been denying myself the right to trust my instincs. If you have certain feelings or thoughts they are there for a reason, that is after all who you are and is the most natural thing in life. I now instead of censoring my thoughts out of fear listen to them and explore them. You should be extremely proud of yourself for questioning your doubts, how long do you really think that you can continue living in your current situation without being true to yourself, you will only loose respect for yourself and all those wonderful qualities that have shun through in your writing above will diminish. You need to accept that you don't think exactly the way you used to. Afterall you're of obviously very intelligent and intune with your inner belief structure that you will have nothing to fear, either it will in the long term strengthen your existing belief structure or you will move on from it and attain more inner peace and mental freedom than you might have not otherwise known. I started reading a book about 12months ago called the 'Road Less Travelled' by someone Becks, I would recommend it to everyone. Completely non-denomindation and is purely self help. It has a section in it that talks about 'Map making' which discusses the fact that all throughout our lives we receive new information that forces us to re-map our perspective or more appropriately our 'working view of the world'. It talks about this at times being a very painful thing to do and sometimes we will go the emph degree to denounce any new information that comes to our senses as evil because of the fear of letting go. We do it when we're children, we remap again when we're teenagers, we do it again when we move into adulthood, then into middle life and again into old age. We can't possibly work with an outdated map right through our lives, and when new information makes itself present it is vital for our personal growth that we address it.

In my experience perhaps rather than stepping entirely out of your comfort zone and visiting other churches that maybe you start seriously meditating on your own thoughts and reading some self help material which if it's good will only teach you more about yourself rather than persuade you. This is what I have recently done in the last 12 months, and I'm happy to say that my departure from the JW org has been an intellectual decision rather than a behavioural one. I haven't actually been disfellowshiped nor do I plan to, and will go to whatever degree legally to make sure that doesn't happen. I do this because I am determined that I want to know my younger siblings, and because I know that above else my family still loves me. If you do decide to allow yourself to fade and cut off associations with your friends in the org I doubt that too much pressure would be put on you to be on a judicial committe now that you're no longer an elder. If you do become reappointed you will only make the inevitable an even more bitter pill to swallow should the time come.

On this forum as a tralier to one of the posters here there is a saying that "When the pain of being where you are is greater than the fear of letting go. You will risk and heal and grow". This has had so much truth in it for me personally. And I realise that although my family do love me that their being a part of my every day life was based on conditions that I could no longer stand by in good conscience. You will still have a full life if you do the right things by yourself. I'm leaving for Africa Ghana in a month to work in an orphanage/school and my family to my absolute bewilderment, even my Uncle elder who has always exerted much pressure on me respects what I want to do. The key is just giving them a little bit at a time, not too much because you know what it would be like if you were in their position. It is very rare that in a situation like you are in and we have all been in that anyone close to you will be in the same frame of mind as you are at the same time. Unfortunately when it comes to such a mammoth issue in your life you are all on your own with it.

I wish you all the best, I have a very strong sense that you will make the absolute best choice for yourself no matter what that might be.

All my love V**

27

How the West sacrifices the rest

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

sometimes you can only shake your head:us blocks cheap drugs agreement.

the united states has blocked an international agreement to allow poor countries to buy cheap drugs.

one-hundred and forty-three countries stood on the same ground, we were hoping to make that unanimous.

Vee

I see your point Animal, that drugs like this would not exist if it were't for the billions of $$ invested...but is it still not inconceivable that a price can be put on the value of millions, and some who will without question suffer and die an excruciating death that could otherwise be prevented if the laws were lifted? There is the question that if the patent laws were lifted where would it stop, but perhaps it is long overdue for the entire structure to be reviewed and overhauled to come in line with basic humanitarian principles, such a thing cannot possibly happen without some sacrifice on both sides...but which side is it that has sacrificed far too much already? After all how long ago was it that these laws were put in place?...that is a question as I myself do not know. Was it in a time before these drugs, the only means to treat millions were available, or even available in such large quantities to be of benefit in a situation like this? It really is only a matter of time before this wall comes down, those standing in the way cannot possibly hold it back forever, or even that much longer with the rising statistics that appear in papers every week.

It reminds me of earlier on in the year where the US would not come to the party on the environmental treaty that was drafted as a follow-up to the Kyoto treaty. This was because it would be too much of a sacrifice financially on their industries one that they weren't prepared to make. And yet the US themselves are the largest producers of greenhouse gas emitions. Pres Bush stated their goal is to reduce America's greenhouse gas emissions "relative to the size of the US economy".

Thank-you for posting this expatbrit :-)

9

Watchtower & Sex

by JH in

jw
friends

do you think that witnesses in general have a good sex life?

with all the pressure they have to produce and assist meetings, they have less time left on their hands for other things, like sex.

asked to be spiritual, reading the bible, talking about god and angels, takes their mind off sex.

Vee

Is my sex life better since I left the org?...well I now actually have one!!!

I was raised in the borg since very young, lost my virginity when I was 17 to my "worldly" boyfriend. The sex was horrid, despite the fact that I wanted to enjoy it I hadn't by any means thrown off all the guilt about engaging in this most disgraceful act! I went back after a year out and 6+ years since then I'm now out of the org and in a very strong relationship and have a fantastic sex life. Although my boyfriend often says how cute it is that I still giggle when I think certain things are "naughty".

I remember reading a Greek philosophy that stated that good regular sex helped to prolong life. Whenever one of those threads comes up about how much time did the WT borg take from you, I will be sure to mention the lack of sex that has decreased my life span.

V**

25

Elder Resigns Because Of 9---11

by minimus in

jw
friends

last night i talked to an elder that resigned early this year and he told me that he resigned as an elder because of 9--11. he felt that after seeing thousands of people dying in such a horrifying way, there was just no way god would destroy 99 and 9 tenths of the world and only spare jehovah's witnesses.

he also felt that since the kingdom message could not be adequately preached by a handful of jw's so that people could get life, the whole thing is a sham.

he no longer goes to meetings and his wife crys to everybody about her husband.

Vee

I too was going through a period of doubt and questioning the borg during 9-11. It messed me up really badly and actually drove me into complete fear running back to the borg, although I hadn't at that time stopped attending meetings. It was too horrific and I couldn't handle what I was seeing, I was so afraid that it was all evidence of the coming great fear inspiring day of JH. In hindsight I cannot believe that it pushed me back to the borg rather than further away from the borg, for exactly the reasons that have been stated. Being that how could anyone be joyful over the deaths of so many innocent thousands, and to think that I was once looking forward to the deaths of millions for the sake of my own personal salvation?!?!?!!. I remember the lack of warmth and feeling of a fellow JW work associate of mine, she was so proud and indignant as she was completely convinced she was on the side of good. I also know for a fact that the events of that day did not affect my JW family and associates to the same degree it did me. I was fearful, but also extremely confused about what it all meant.

Every day from here is just further confirmation for me that there is still far more good in the world than there is bad, I just had to open my eyes to see it.

V**

Your old things can make a big difference!!!

by Vee in

jw
friends

a big hi to you all this day!.

you may have read in an earlier post that i''ve been fortunate enough to be accepted to do volunteer work in a school/orphanage in accra ghana, east africa this coming january.. i'm in the process of trying to get together things which will be of use to the school since they have so very little.

this afternoon i received an e-mail from the school asking me to bring old school bags and board games of scrabble.

Vee

A big HI to you all this day!

You may have read in an earlier post that I''ve been fortunate enough to be accepted to do volunteer work in a School/Orphanage in Accra Ghana, East Africa this coming January.

I'm in the process of trying to get together things which will be of use to the school since they have so very little. This afternoon I received an e-mail from the school asking me to bring old school bags and board games of scrabble. In an earlier e-mail they suggested things for the children's home like shoes, clothing, educational materials etc. Only old things are necessary, things which your children may have outgrown or you no longer use.

The co-ordinator suggested I might approach friends which may be able to help with any of these things. And since my social circles have receeded rather rapidly in the last 12months, I thought that I would extend the request to you all!!

I'm currently based in London UK therefore, items would either need to be sent to me directly, or if you're feeling generous directly to the school in Ghana! If you are unable to afford the postage it is possible if you think it worthwhile that I will be able to send you a prepaid post package.

E-mail: [email protected]

Love & Hugs, V**

35

Human Compassion

by Xena in

jw
friends

i can't help but wonder if it gets lost somewhere in cyberspace.

there are a couple of threads that are active at this time where the original poster did or said something deemed inappropriate....this was pointed out to them...threads locked or the poster retracted what they said...it should be over right?

but nooooo some people continue to kick that poster over and over and over.....with their mocking and cruel comments.

Vee

I want a link to these threads! I've been out of the loop and think I may have missed out V**

4

Atheist? Agnostic? Theist? Polytheist???...

by Vee in

jw
friends

if you are a theist and i assumed for a long time i was, this means we were acknowledging that there is a singular god as creator.

now that your thoughts have changed do you question whether all of those years of heartfelt prayer, and pouring out of your inner most thoughts to (jehovah) god were actually transmitted?

is it possible that if we trully believed in our minds heart that what we perceived to be the "truth" in the jw org and the only way in which to reach god, that god (jehovah) would have accepted our prayers as sincere, and the context or the avenue in which we reached him was irrelevant?.

Vee

If you are a Theist and I assumed for a long time I was, this means we were acknowledging that there is a singular God as Creator. Now that your thoughts have changed do you question whether all of those years of heartfelt prayer, and pouring out of your inner most thoughts to (Jehovah) God were actually transmitted? Is it possible that if we trully believed in our minds heart that what we perceived to be the "truth" in the JW org and the only way in which to reach God, that God (Jehovah) would have accepted our prayers as sincere, and the context or the avenue in which we reached him was irrelevant?

I know myself that when I was young growing up in the org, praying to Jehovah got me through some of the darkest moments of my life. This was despite the fact that a many number of the problems and pain were associated with the org (but I didn't necessarily recognise this at the time). Now that I'm out of the org I still feel the need to say the occassional prayer, but after years and years of praying to Jehovah through the way in which I was taught, I still feel like I'm praying to the same God, which doesn't feel at all right! This makes me think that perhaps God was just a figment of my imagination, and is no higher than my cerebral cortex. Perhaps purely psyshological, and just the way in which I wished to perceive God at the time.

After all belief in God cannot be without faith, and faith is a very personal thing. It is a trigger that flicks over in our minds that can't be backed up entirely by fact. It seems impossible that any 2 of us can share exactly the same relationship with one singular God since we all come to know him and believe in him on different levels through different avenues. Therefore, what is the purpose of organised religion? If similar beliefs or ideals attract us to the same organised religion, is it because we want a more exclusive relationship with God and need the backing of a larger majority to give justification to our hopes and beliefs? Could it be that this need is just evidence of a shakey foundation to our faith?

V**...Possible Athies? Agnostic? Theist? Polytheist TBC