Posts by robhic

9

Doors closed in 1935?

by gringojj in

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has the wts ever said specifically that there would be no more anoinments after 1935 or anything to that effect?

*** Watchtower 1997 October 1 p.23 Grateful for a Long Life in Jehovah's Service ***
Confident in Kingdom Hope

In 1935 we came to understand that the "great crowd" was not a secondary heavenly class. We learned that it instead represents a class that survives the great tribulation and has the opportunity of living forever in Paradise on earth. (Revelation 7:9-14) With this new understanding, some who had partaken of the Memorial emblems realized that theirs was an earthly hope, and they discontinued partaking.

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http://www.freeminds.org/history/part3.htm (scroll down to "1935")

1935 [Close of "high calling" of the 144,000 .. from 1935 WTBTS have taught that only about 8,000 of the 144,000 are still alive in the 1990s, that the "Great Company/Crowd" in Rev 7 are not considered anointed Christians, are not "born again" do not partake in communion, do not have Christ as mediator, and can at most expect eternal life on Earth] {WT Jun 15 1992 23, HIS2 166}

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Hope this helps.

Robert

10

Six Million Can't be Wrong .... part II

by robhic in

as a non-jw, i read with interest and amusement the thread "six million jws can't be wrong..." thread.

all great posts but as i was digesting them a thought occurred to me: the jw position is self-contradicting.

i know that's probably not a surprise to ex-jws, but i found it amusing.

robhic

As a non-JW, I read with interest and amusement the thread "Six Million JWs Can't be Wrong..." thread. All great posts but as I was digesting them a thought occurred to me: The JW position is self-contradicting. I know that's probably not a surprise to ex-JWs, but I found it amusing.

If 6MM JWs are so right, then, using that "logic", 1 billion Catholics must really be right. Or Muslims. Or any group with membership of more than 6MM, right? No! because the path is narrow and Matt 7:14 is cited.

OK, then, again using that "logic", a group with less numbers than 6 MM (Scientologists at 1/2 million was noted) would be even more likely to fit on "the path", right? Why aren't the smaller religions not the ones on the narrow path, huh?

How can such obvious (to me, at least) self-contradicting statements not provide a "Hmmmm..." moment for JWs? Like if one were to make the comment about 6MM JWs can't be wrong and I mentioned that Catholics or Muslims or other larger group must really be right, would the next statment be a "Well, but the path is narrow" one to which my reply would be about smaller groups fitting that description?

This is circular reasoning at its finest. If I get the chance to have this conversation with my JW friend -- or one of her JW friends -- I'd like to try it. Do you think it would go anywhere?

Robert

10

YHWH...used by the Catholics....

by Golden Girl in

i was talking to my grown ex jw daughter the other day and we were discussing the new cathedral downtown.

the old one is still there but small.

i was telling her that the hebrew letters for "jehovah's name" is inscribed on the top of the cathedral.

robhic

Not that I am a scholar of any type, but the King James version of the bible contains the name "Jehovah" and always has, to my knowledge. Many bible translations contain the name Jehovah so I never understood why this was made a big deal.

These other versions don't use Jehovah in the New Testament (as seems to be the generally accepted truth ...even the JWs admit it.) nor quite as much as the NWT but it is not a name wholly unrecognized or unused by other religious denominations.

Just my thoughts,

Robert

21

Can Science Answer All questions?

by Mecurious? in

i believe that we will eventually know:.

1.for sure wheter their are people/life forms on other planets.

2. what happens when we die .

robhic

Maybe not all but thousands or even hundreds of years ago I doubt that people envisioned things we take for granted today. Same as we might think we'll have all the answers one day. It's a little hard to think about but I expect that knowledge will come exponentially faster and years from now people will not think twice about common things that we would (now) see as "futuristic" or "No way!".

Who, today, thinks twice when a plane goes overhead? Now what do you think Moses thought about air traffic? Today's commonplace is yesterday's "No way!"

Robert

70

Will humanity EVER outgrow God?

by nicolaou in

firstly let me say that i am not trying to offend believers - i was one for most of my life.

nor is this a discussion about whether god/religion is a 'good' or 'bad' thing, that argument will rage forever.

what i'm asking is really a simple question;.

robhic

Yes, as education, scientific research, archeology, etc. expand man's knowledge, I believe that the concept of a being the likes of which a "god" is constructed and believed in for same reasons will erode slowly.

As the previously-held beliefs are shown to be just men's fabrications, then people will (hopefully) start to be a little more discriminating of the things they hold dear strictly because of "faith" which, to me, seems irrational. Comforting to many but not all that rational or reasonable if you stop to examine and think about this stuff. It hit me when I finally read the bible cover-to-cover a few years ago. A dazed disbelief came over me after reading some of the stories. Between constant thoughts of "No way!" and "WTF?!?!" it was a sobering experience.

So many things in the bible are just dumb or concepts that are out-dated for thousands of years. They don't make sense, are generally impossible (Just for starters: one guy killing 7000 soldiers with a donkey's jawbone? I don't think so... ) but they served their purpose. At the time.

What makes me angry is my own complacency (borne of laziness, I must confess...) to just allow myself to be led by these teachings from birth. (I am not a JW but was raised catholic. The example is the same.) My parents and teachers told me it was so -- It must be true, right? I lived most of my life under the impression that all the biblical stuff had to be real because so many people I respected said it. Who was I to question them? But I suppose that is/was the product of their laziness and complacency in just accepting the irrational from people they respected and on and on ad finitum.

As discretion and actual thought will hopefully prevail, I expect a lot of the stuff that makes you go "Hmmmm..." will start to make people think and do some investigating which, again hopefully, will lead to rationality. Then control allowed by fear will be replaced by logic, reality and things being done because they are the right thing to do, not just because 2000 years ago some goat-herders wrote a book...

Robert"

17

Are things really that bad?

by gringojj in

i was just reading a post from someone and it said that the world is a paradise now, we just have to accept it.

it made me think, the jws are always saying how bad things are now and that they are just getting worse.

so im wondering, are things really that bad?

robhic

"The reality is there is SO much GOOD news it isn't worth reporting."

Gary Buss hit the nail on the head. Bad news sells! Good news is good but not as hypnotically attention-riveting as the bad. We're glad the baby is outta the well but it doesn't stay with us as long as the story about the baby being murdered by the escaped pedophile.

Kids doing good (and somewhat unexpectedly) things is a "feel good" moment but look how long coverage of the devastation of the tsunami lasted! And who could look away? Like the saying about the trainwreck that was so horrible but not being able to look away...

Good news is everywhere if you care to look. "IF" being the operative word.

Robert

111

June 6, 2006 Why be worried?

by robhic in

on may 5, 2005 the thought occured to me: it's 05/05/05.

now, next year do you think jws -- and/or all fundamentalist groups, etc -- will be anticipating or freak out on june 6, 2006?

it'll be 06/06/06 or, more diabolically extrapolated (as they do so well...), 666!!!

robhic

On May 5, 2005 the thought occured to me: It's 05/05/05. Now, next year do you think JWs -- and/or all fundamentalist groups, etc -- will be anticipating or freak out on June 6, 2006? It'll be 06/06/06 or, more diabolically extrapolated (as they do so well...), 666!!!

This is certainly not a JW-only issue and I'm sure I am not the first person to think this. What are the thoughts of others here and has anyone even heard a beginning groundswell of anticipation for 06/06/06?

Robert

17

JOB's children celebrating birthdays

by eye 23 in

can anyone give me their view on why the bible says that after job's children celebrated 'their day' he went out and made sacrafices to god in case they had sinned and cursed god in their hearts ?.

the first part is a great talking part especially regarding job being a rightous man but the latter tends to counter act it some how by impling that job thoughts were that birthdays were wrong, in gods eyes.

especially as he did this after every birthday, so i can't really debate that it was one off event that might have encured some wrong doing at one particular party........if you understand what i mean.. thanks for any iput.

robhic

Also add this part:

Job 3:1

After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.

Job 3:2 And Job answered and said:

Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, And the night which said, There is a man-child conceived .

Again it seems obvious that "his day" and "the day ... wherein I was born" means the same thing -- his birthday!

How can they try so desperately to deny this simple fact?

Robert

17

JOB's children celebrating birthdays

by eye 23 in

can anyone give me their view on why the bible says that after job's children celebrated 'their day' he went out and made sacrafices to god in case they had sinned and cursed god in their hearts ?.

the first part is a great talking part especially regarding job being a rightous man but the latter tends to counter act it some how by impling that job thoughts were that birthdays were wrong, in gods eyes.

especially as he did this after every birthday, so i can't really debate that it was one off event that might have encured some wrong doing at one particular party........if you understand what i mean.. thanks for any iput.

robhic

I'm certainly no bible scholar but the Job passages just tell me that there is implicit allowance for birthday celebrations. The family invited each other over to celebrate "their day" (which is fairly obvious...) and have a generally good time.

Perhaps Job was just doing a CYA in case any of his kids hadn't been as perfectly perfect as Job himself and he was putting in a good word for the great J-man to not judge his kids too harshly. And he did it on "their day" which sorta made it a present!

I quoted Job 1:4 on a card sent to my JW girlfriend with the message (it was flowers) on the card: "Have a great time on 'YOUR DAY' Job 1:4" None of her JW friends who came to visit (oh yeah, she was in the hospital at the time) made ONE SINGLE MENTION of the card, the present, birthdays or anything. I was just waiting for 'em to say something.

I amuse myself by thinking I won this round. Oh well...

Robert

15

I want to get a different Bible than the NWT. Which version?

by ithinkisee in

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any suggestions?

i'd like to have several different ones, but what is a fairly good version to start using out of the gate?.

robhic

For a really great electronic option go to

http://www.e-sword.net/

You can download (for FREE!!!) many, many versions of Bible translations. It also allows for comparisons between selected trasnlations in a verse-by-verse format and has a bunch of maps of current and ancient biblical regions. The search features are first-class, also.

All in all, it is one heck of a product -- and you can't beat the price!