Posts by azaria

119

Is Mankind Born Evil....or Good?

by Farkel in

many ancients including confucious and lao tzu took opposing views about this subject and their arguments are fascinating to read.

their arguments are nearly 2,500 years old.

the greeks also lively debated this question.. of course, as dubs (and in fact, in most christian faiths) we were taught that man was born inherently evil, and the quest is to overcome that and work towards the good.

azaria

I believe that people in general are born "good" and will grow up being good. I cannot prove this, though, except emperically, and that is not enough.

If you believe that most people are good you are deluding yourself; if you think the opposite of evil is good. Yes most people are good but not by the way you define good. In Psalms 146? (for those that do believe in God) we are fearfully and wonderfully made. I like to believe that babies are born good with the potential to be good, but realistically that doesn't happen.

Okay: perfect/unevil-God, evil/imperfect-Satan, HumanBeings/capable of being good,bad,evil, but not perfect

Yes I do believe in God and I do believe that He is perfect. I don’t delude myself into thinking that I’m smarter than Him.

I'm a logical guy, and I can smash any argument that is specious, or that expects people to accept a definition in an argument/question because MOST people accept that definition. Often enough, MOST people are wrong.

I cannot prove this, though, except emperically, and that is not enough.

Somehow I find these comments rather contradictory. You say you can smash any argument that lacks any merit and then further down you say you can’t prove what you say because of your own experiences. It really comes down to what you personally believe and you Farkel just have an opionion like everyone else, not necessarily based on fact. Maybe I’m kind of dense; please enlighten me.

I personally believe that in a sense it is truly simple. We humans like to make it complicated. Maybe it makes us think that we are more intelligent than we really are. Yes I like a heated debate but you seem to think that somehow that you are intellectually superior to anyone else here on this board and I’m sure in the real world also. I somehow think that you are in pain and struggling with the answers like everyone else here. But please don’t be so condescending. Am I reading you wrong; if so I apologize; but I don’t think I am. Please don’t check my grammar and spelling. Yes I am a bit annoyed the past few days and maybe I’m just taking it out on you. Oh by the way, at work last Saturday I was listening to Ave Maria by Schubert and thought about you. Being a Schubert fan you can’t be all bad. I just wish you would show that side of yourself more often.

119

Is Mankind Born Evil....or Good?

by Farkel in

many ancients including confucious and lao tzu took opposing views about this subject and their arguments are fascinating to read.

their arguments are nearly 2,500 years old.

the greeks also lively debated this question.. of course, as dubs (and in fact, in most christian faiths) we were taught that man was born inherently evil, and the quest is to overcome that and work towards the good.

azaria

This is a kind of a hodgepodge. I'm in a hurry to go to work now.

Good and evil are not opposites.

Good and bad are opposites

perfect and evil are opposites or as you would seem to say perfect/imperfect or evil/unevil

The opposite of perfect is imperfect. Perfect flawless sinless, imperfect flawed sinful

cake is good or bad not good or evil; no-cake tastes good or bad

Your groups:

Group 1 consists of the (mainly Christian) variety that firmly believes that people are born inherently "bad" or even "wicked." They teach their children this and influence them from the earliest age. Group 2 consists of another variety that firmly believes that people are born inherently good and that there are other reasons not related to "original sin", genes or whatever that cause them to become bad. They, too teach their children this philosopy. Group 3 consists of, let's say atheists who are ambivalent about this issue and teach their children that they should do what they feel they have to do, without regards to consequences after this life.

I added another group and chose it.

Group 4 consists of another group of people that believes that people are born with the potential (the reality) to sin. At the point where the infant realizes that he has a choice, sin (mistakes) begin. The parents teach by example.

I guess the only way to find out is to separate an infant from all humanity and see what happens. Give the necessities of life but for the most part leave him alone, so he doesn’t realize that other humans exist. Like Jim Carrie’s movie create an environment where the person is self-sufficient (or so he thinks)

I imagine the greatest sin is selfishness.

119

Is Mankind Born Evil....or Good?

by Farkel in

many ancients including confucious and lao tzu took opposing views about this subject and their arguments are fascinating to read.

their arguments are nearly 2,500 years old.

the greeks also lively debated this question.. of course, as dubs (and in fact, in most christian faiths) we were taught that man was born inherently evil, and the quest is to overcome that and work towards the good.

azaria

As a child emerges from it's mother's body, what is it's "tendency", yet unnurtured as yet to be?

I don’t believe that we are born good or evil. We are born with the potential to sin or do wrong. There is a big difference between being sinful and being evil. We have a choice; we can do wrong or do what is right. An evil person crosses the line time after time not caring about anyone but himself or his cause. Thankfully most people don’t cross that line. Today (9/11) we remember what evil can do to mankind. Genetics and our environment greatly influence but the bottom line is that we still make choices. I haven’t read the other responses yet. I’m sure many will be much more eloquent.

47

My father passed away....

by Alana in

jw
friends

i know that i don't post often, but i read this board daily.

anyway, i just wanted to pass on the information that my father passed away last week.

he was 81 and in semi-poor health.

azaria

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your father Alana. I'm glad for you that the Memorial went well.

8

Styrofoam Personalities at the Kingdom Hall

by Nosferatu in

jw
friends

i think it's absolutely amazing how people strip off the old personality, and put on the new personality when they enter the kingdom hall.

everyone looks incredibly phony.

those smiles aren't genuine.

azaria

I can only comment on what I've personally seen. On the surface they seem to have the answers and say that they are loving (as if they are the only ones with that trait) and honest. But I've only seen the opposite. As a group (JW's) there are people that I have no desire to see again and there are some who seemed friendly; who I could spend some time with; as long as they didn't talk about their org. (like the Elder who wouldn't allow Psalm 23 to be read by a non-JW in the Kingdom Hall at my fathers Memorial. I think he was callous, insensitive, going by the law. Another was so depressed I would never want to spend time with her) Even my mother, she talks like she has the truth but if you talk to her for any length of time, you see that she is very mean spirited (talking about the people in her past and present) Last week she mentioned that she was so proud of herself because she didn't steal something. If I had ever considered stealing anything I would be mortified even thinking it, yet she was proud because she resisted. I do hope that in time she will fully open her eyes to the real truth; that the JW org isn't the truth. But I will not try to persuade her: I think that would be callous under the circumstances. As a family we have all been very loving towards her and I hope that she will eventually start to think on her own. (my dad was very opinionated and overpowering) For those who read my last post (re: my dad passed away) the congregation never (apart from the one lady) brought prepared food for my mother. One couple did bring a bottle of brandy. Even my mother couldn't understand that one. When a family member passes on I believe that the congregation needs to supply any necessities (food, doing any housework etc) while the person left behind is grieving. Is it only this congregation? or they all like that?

59

Off for my surgery

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

well i am just waiting for my ride and then i will be off.

hope the results are good of the biopsy although i might not find out today.

and yesterday i bought myself two canes - one sleek brass colored folding cane and the other a standard purple floral number weehoo.

azaria

((((((

I'll be thinking about you Lady Lee.

13

a joke from my jw dad!

by free will in

jw
friends

a brother gives his first public talk, but only takes 15 minutes to give the talk.

the elders talk about counseling him, but after some consideration, decide to give him a break since it was his first talk.

the next public talk he gives, he talks for exactly one full hour!!

azaria

"at 40 below zero.... Jehovahs Witnesses will stick to your screen door".

Perry: that was funny. Will copy that for future use.

30

Pick one.....The lesser of two evils.

by Adam in

jw
friends

if you had to be born into a religious family and stuck in it 'till you finally broke free, would you rather it be mormon or jw?

azaria

I thought about this just a couple of days ago. I don't believe in either but if I had to I would choose Mormon. They seem family oriented and I think they believe that when they die they have celestial sex. They seem nicer but I must admit that in any group there are some you dislike and some you like.

9

Going to Mexico

by Beans in

jw
friends

well i am going to mexico in january (puerto vallarta) not my choice but hey i am into seeing different places.

if you have been there what did you think of it and what is good and bad?

what type of tequila do you recomend to purschase and where is a good cigar store?

azaria

My best friend and I went twice to Acapulco. We loved it. That was many many years ago. We were both (natural) blonde, blue eyed. The men loved it and at times it was almost embarrasing; like when we went to a club late at night, with dark haired gorgeous women waiting to get in and when we arrived we were let in immediately. The looks we got. Have a great time. Drink the Corona; obviously not the water.

17

If the end did come

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

when you were a witness, and the end actually came, how do you think you would have reacted?.

with all the blood and carnage, do you think you really would have been so happy?

the day we awaited was actually here?.

azaria

I don't know why some like the JW's are so obsessed with the end of the world. I don't believe Jesus ever said to obsess about it; just to be ready because we don't know when that may happen. Everyday it's the end of the world for people who pass away. That is what we should be ready for, the end of our own lives, to make sure that we have told our loved ones how we feel about them so they don't have to question that and to try and make peace with those you have had disagreements with for your own sake so you don't have the guilt. I'm thankful that I wrote a note to apologize to my parents before my dad passed away. I knew that they wouldn't ever apologize to me but I felt that I had to do it for me. I didn't feel I was lowering myself by doing that. That he didn't let me know how he felt about me was out of my control. It was his choice.