Posts by Euphemism

39

Watchtower condones murder - but make sure you disfellowship for smoking!

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i unintentionally hijacked the wanderer's thread regarding a witness mindset - so i post this here to leave his thread on topic.. http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm.

.

i know that this in not news to most here - but to some newer 'faders' or 'lurkers' it might be.. jeff .

Euphemism

AK - Jeff wrote:
So, Euphemism, certain murders should just be 'allowed' if they are 'gang related' and such. That is flat out bullshit!

Tell that to the Mother's and Father's and Brothers and Sisters of the person who was murdered. Give me a flippin' break.

Should they be 'allowed' by the police or the courts? Of course not. But law is not always the same as justice.

I've personally known people who committed crimes--albeit not murder--as kids because of their involvement in gangs. If a person is truly no longer a danger to society, what benefit is there to anyone--even the relatives of their victims--from locking them up?

Our legal system is not equipped to make such judgments about people, and so the law must prosecute all cases equally. But personally, if I had knowledge that a person who was now an upstanding citizen had committed crimes in the past, I would not decide lightly to turn them in.

2

Since when are JW's "Christian"?

by onlycurious in

i remember when it was "christendom" and christians were a dirty word.. now the wt is touting that they are "christian"?

when did this happen and why?

was it a planned event, a strategy of sorts?.

Euphemism

The Witnesses have called themselves 'Christians' for decades. A lot of mainstream Christians would disagree with that label, because the Witnesses don't accept the divinity of Jesus (at least not fully), and most of them don't take communion. However, the Witnesses are a break-away sect of Adventism; they accept the Christian (Protestant) Bible and believe that salvation is through Jesus Christ, whom they believe is the Son of God. So I think they can reasonably call themselves Christian, although I can understand why more mainstream Christians want no part of them.

39

Watchtower condones murder - but make sure you disfellowship for smoking!

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i unintentionally hijacked the wanderer's thread regarding a witness mindset - so i post this here to leave his thread on topic.. http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm.

.

i know that this in not news to most here - but to some newer 'faders' or 'lurkers' it might be.. jeff .

Euphemism

I should add that, depending on the circumstances of the case, I don't necessarily think that the elders should turn the guy in. If the murders were, e.g. part of a gang lifestyle that he has completely left behind, and there's no real likelihood of him going back to it, then there's not really any benefit to society from locking him up.

What's ridiculous is the Watchtower's attitude that any actions prior to becoming a Witness get a free pass, but once you're dunked, every little transgression needs to be scrutinized. Apparently Jehovah's love and forgiveness are boundless... until you actually start worshiping him.

39

Watchtower condones murder - but make sure you disfellowship for smoking!

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i unintentionally hijacked the wanderer's thread regarding a witness mindset - so i post this here to leave his thread on topic.. http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm.

.

i know that this in not news to most here - but to some newer 'faders' or 'lurkers' it might be.. jeff .

Euphemism

Mmm... yummy camel.

20

Was C.T. Russell all that bad?

by Sad emo in

disclaimer: this is a question purely about russell's bible teaching, not about his personal life, whether he was a freemason or whatever else.. ok, russell set himself up as a bible teacher, a lot of his theology was borrowed from groups such as the adventists and certain pyramidologists of his time, and i agree that a lot of his conclusions were plain crazy.

my question is this - was the movement he started simply another misguided christian denomination with genuine motives as opposed to what happened after rutherford took over and added all the dogmas?

does russell bear any of the blame for what the wbts has become?.

Euphemism

Russell's an angel compared to Rutherford, no doubt about that. But he did have a huge ego, which got gradually worse the more successful he became. While the biggest schism didn't happen until after his death, there were several smaller ones while he was still alive, due to his micromanagement and unwillingness to tolerate any other talented preachers who might outshine him.

He also became quite dogmatic, claiming that anyone who disagreed with him was 'returning to darkness' and changing the congregation meetings from study of the Bible to study of his writings. Beckford's Trumpet of Prophecy has a good rundown of this stuff.

11

Grooming for Eldarhood

by Wendy_Warden in

how can you tell when the wt is grooming someone to be an eldar?

i think this is happening to a friend of mine, but maybe i'm over reacting.

thanks.

Euphemism

Just to add, before becoming an elder, a guy (and only guys are eligible) has to have been a Ministerial Servant (the Witnesses' term for a deacon) for at least a year, and generally has to be at least in his late 20's.

25

Confused about the JW dating system

by Wendy_Warden in

okay, so a girl friend of mine whos a jw was trying to explain their dating thing.

.

Euphemism

I should add that a lot of these unwritten rules vary among different regions of the US, and among more liberal or conservative congregations. For example, in the congregations in New York where I lived for several years, dates in a public place--e.g. a restaurant--were usually unchaperoned; but couples couldn't be alone in a private home. In more conservative areas, e.g. the Midwest, it's a lot more common for congregations to expect all dates to be chaperoned.

OTOH, the official rule that's constant across all congregations is: nothing beyond first base before marriage. Obviously there's a lot of hypocrisy, kids fooling around in secret, etc. but anything from second base on up can be a disfellowhipping offense.

P.S. In response to 5go... I guess that falls into the unwritten rules, which varied by congregation, but I think that generally holding hands and/or kissing was only accepted after engagement.

30

Children in Bulgaria - CANNOT BECOME MEMBERS

by compound complex in

dear friends, .

on various fronts there has been much discussion on the children of jehovah's witnesses being pushed into premature baptism.

the statement that the society prepared for the european commission on human rights, however, is quite revealing.

Euphemism

The blood deal is pretty simple. A few years back, they changed the punishment for accepting blood from disfellowshipping to disassociation. That means that they no longer 'sanction' someone for taking blood; instead, they claim that anyone who taks blood has voluntarily withdrawn from the organization. Different words, exact same effect.

As for children being "members", I don't know the exact deal, but here's a guess:

In the United States, Kingdom Halls are frequently owned by local corporations. The "membership" of these corporations is defined as all baptized publishers in the congregation, 18 years of age or older. So children can still "participate" by being baptized, preaching, and even facing a judicial committee; but they're not technically "members."

I don't know if that's how it works in Bulgaria as well, but I would guess it's some word-game like that.

73

Why do apostates lie about where they get their information?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

it does no good.

i don't understant it - who do they think they're foolin'?.

i have just been listening to the judicual committee that disfellowshipped rick and laverne townsend and it is cringeworthy, to say the least, to listen to them cover-up, distort and outright lie about the sources of their information and the real background to their dissent.

Euphemism

I haven't listened to the recording you refer to, but I know that in my case, I did actually come across a lot of stuff myself before I started reading "apostate" writings.

For example, I'm pretty sure I still have a copy around of the essay I wrote of my own research about "parousia." Or the KM quote about '75: I heard that there was controversy over 1975 (but not any specific quote) and so I decided to do a search in the Watchtower Library and see what I could find. And guess what? I found that quote.

Of course, once I was convinced that the Watchtower was off-base, and I started reading critical materials, I found that they had already written about all the things I researched, and far more. But a lot of this stuff is actually out there for anyone with a brain and a little bit of time, even using exclusively Watchtower-approved research tools.

21

Baptism question.....

by lavendar in

jw
friends

when a person gets close to being baptized, i understand he/she must go before the elders to answer some questions?

what exactly do the elders ask the person??.

lavendar .

Euphemism

Also, before being considered for baptism by the Witnesses, one must first become a "publisher" (evangelizer). The Organized book* has the questions that are asked prior to that:

But there are some aspects of the student's life that two elders will want to discuss with him and you together before you invite him to accompany you in the field service and to share in publicly witnessing to others.
Do the person's expressions show that he believes the Bible is the inspired Word of God? (2 Tim. 3:16) Does he know and believe the basic teachings of the Scriptures so that, when asked questions he will answer in harmony with the Bible and not according to his own ideas or false religious teachings? (2 Tim. 2:15; Matt. 7:21-23) Is he heeding the Bible's command to associate with Jehovah's people in congregation meetings (if he physically and circumstantially can)? (Heb. 10:24, 25; Ps. I22: 1) Does he know what the Bible says about fornication, adultery, polygamy and homosexuality, and is he living in harmony with such teachings? If the person is living with one of the opposite sex, are they properly married? (Matt. 19:9; 1 Cor. 6: 9,1 Tim. 3:2, 12; Heb. 13:4) Does he heed the Bible’s prohibition of drunkenness? (Eph. 5:18; 1 Pet. 4: 3, 4) Does he keep himself clean from the defilement of tobacco, betel nut and other things that contaminate the body? Is he free from nonmedical use of addictive drugs'? (2 Cor. 7: 1) Has he definitely broken off membership in all false religious organizations with which he may have been affiliated, and has he ceased attending their meetings and supporting or sharing in their activities? (2 Cor. 6:14.18- Rev. 18:4) Is he free from all involvement in the political affairs of the world? (John 6:15; 15:19; Jas. 1:27) Does he believe and live in harmony with what the Bible says about the aff airs of the nations at Isaiah 2:4? Does he really want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses?-Ps. 110:3.

* Full text at http :// www. watchtower. cc /organized.pdf (remove the spaces to access the web site; the board software won't allow a direct link)