I don't think that he's recanted his positions in JWs Defended, at least not most of them. Most of JWs Defended was devoted to topics such as the Trinity, the Divine Name, and suchlike; as far as I know, he still holds opinions similar (though perhaps not identical) to the Watchtower on those. He even had a recent public debate with Rob Bowman about the Trinity.
Euphemism
JoinedPosts by Euphemism
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14
Jehovah's Witnesses Defended
by greven inhi guys!.
has anyone read "jehovah's witnesses defended: an answer to scholars and critics" by greg stafford?
i haven't but i ask this because it got a 4.5 rating on amazon.com!!!.
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Quality Of Life Musings..
by Englishman inwhen we were witnesses, we didn't worry much about the quality of our lives.
we were concerned for our survival, and for the survival of our loved one's, but we didn't pay much attention to our own personal happiness, believing that our desires for material things and delights were satanic in origin.. things are different now though!
after i departed the jw's it took me many years to appreciate that being in a loving relationship with a special person, is not, in itself, enough, whether that "special person" is our god or our lover, and that there was much more required in our lives before we can feel a sense of contentment.
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Euphemism
I agree with Englishman that the things he describes are what make a day-to-day difference.
I think, though, that you have to be at peace with yourself before you can enjoy any of those things.
If you're at peace with yourself, then you can be content even if your outside circumstances are crappy. If you're not at peace with yourself, then the best circumstances in the world will still leave you feeling miserable.
Some people find inner peace through devotion to a cause or a higher power. Others find it simply through acceptance of themselves and of the world. I say, whatever works for them.
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Are Posters Here Getting A Bit Thin Skinned?
by rem ini can't believe i'm starting a thread on this after four years of participating on jw discussion boards.
lately there seems to be a band of posters who believe that all opinions must be respected (wtf?).
they believe that any type of criticism or alternate viewpoints constitute an 'attack'.
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Euphemism
Hey no biggy, we're all just christians trying to do our best here, Lord willin' and our beliefs don't change
ROFL!
*sigh* You know, this was an interesting discussion before it got buried under a pile of sh*t. It's one thing to advocate open debates about ideas. It's another thing to have a page-and-a-half of ad hominems.
Is there any way that we could get the thread split, and all the sh*t shovelled over into the Adult/Debates forum? Although I think it should be called the Childish/Debates forum...
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14
Jehovah's Witnesses Defended
by greven inhi guys!.
has anyone read "jehovah's witnesses defended: an answer to scholars and critics" by greg stafford?
i haven't but i ask this because it got a 4.5 rating on amazon.com!!!.
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Euphemism
Greg is walking a very fine line. I have to believe, based on Three Dissertations, that he no longer believes in the WTS anymore. But he's apparently trying to avoid the JC ax, because all his public statements are very carefully guarded. They lead up to a conclusion, but they never actually state it, so his ass is covered.
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Who really writes the talks
by anglise inhallo everyone.
the earlier thread about the min school reminded me of the number of times that i researched and at least partly put together items and pub talks for 'he must be obeyed'.. this was necessary because he worked full time in a demanding job which left very little leeway for cobbling the many assignments together.
at first being a good dub wife i felt guilty at doing this but in talking to others whose husbands also worked full time and were not part time cleaners or window cleaners i found that several other elders wives had always done this.. not only the talks but also sorting out the school assigments, the schedules, field service arrangements, sorting the auditing, coach and accomodation for the dc and ca, checking the accounts etc.. lots of these sisters also helped their children put together their items.. rather makes a mockery of the male privilege of "taking the lead".. most elders and ms are unable to cope with all the pressures and work if their wives dont do most for them.
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Euphemism
I agree with your last sentence, Latin, but I have to disagree with the rest of your post.
In my current congregation, one of the elders owns his own business, another is a photographer, another is a meteorologist, another is a carpenter. A couple are cleaners, and I'm not sure what the others do.
In my previous congregation, one of the elders was a printing services salesman, one was a high muckety-mack in the Bethel Factory (and a very competent, intelligent guy), and I'm not sure what the others did.
In the congregation before that, one of the elders was in the Bethel legal department, another had a menial job at Bethel, one was a retired accountant, one was a retired police dispatcher and insurance investigator, a couple had solid union blue-collar jobs, and one was a truck driver.
When I was in that same congregation, we hd a sister congregation with inner-city territory. A lot of single-parent families, people on welfare, etc. The elders in that conregation were all either Bethelites or men with stable jobs.
Basically, the socioeconomic status of the elders depends on the socioeconomic status of the territory. But the only elders I've known who didn't have stable jobs--with the exception of one who suffered from mental illness--were those who were pioneers... which was always a small minority of the elders.
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Are Posters Here Getting A Bit Thin Skinned?
by rem ini can't believe i'm starting a thread on this after four years of participating on jw discussion boards.
lately there seems to be a band of posters who believe that all opinions must be respected (wtf?).
they believe that any type of criticism or alternate viewpoints constitute an 'attack'.
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Euphemism
I'm an INTJ. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
Ha! I knew it!
Seriously, I certainly wouldn't claim that temperament explains everything. I do find, however, that it helps me in understanding differences like these.
(I'm an INFJ, BTW.)
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Please tell me it isnt true
by Eugene Shubert ini have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.
please tell me it isnt true.
if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.
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Euphemism
Eugene... my personal theological positions are not exactly those of the Watchtower Society. However, I'll try and let you know which points on your site are different from official JW theology.
Jesus received and accepted worship
The WTS claim that this was in fact 'obeisance', bowing down as a form of respect, rather than worship.
The Divinity of Jesus?
The WTS calls Jesus "a god" in their translation of John 1:1, but they also point out that human judges are called gods in Jo 10:34,35 (quoting the Psalms).
They translate Phil 2:6 as saying that Jesus was "existing in God's form." They do not, however, officially state that he had divine nature, although this statement would not contradict their beliefs, and it's one that I've heard various studious and scholary JWs make.
They translate Col 1:15 as "the firstborn of all creation," and interpret this to mean that Jesus was created.
The Meaning of Sonship
As noted above, JWs believe that Jesus was created; they also believe, however, that he is higher than all other created beings because he assisted in their creation.
As a poster noted above, they do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person; they believe that it is God's active force.
JWs would accept your statement that " The Son represents the revealed will and mind of God so perfectly that He is rightfully called the word of God," but they would disagree with your exegesis of 1 John 4:8,16. They also would disagree with your definition of the Godhead, considering it to be the Father alone.
Everything else in your page, which I haven't noted above, I believe would be in accord with official WTS theology. Hope this helps!
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Are Posters Here Getting A Bit Thin Skinned?
by rem ini can't believe i'm starting a thread on this after four years of participating on jw discussion boards.
lately there seems to be a band of posters who believe that all opinions must be respected (wtf?).
they believe that any type of criticism or alternate viewpoints constitute an 'attack'.
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Euphemism
Put me with onacruse here. I feel that however wrong-headed I may view people's ideas as, they still deserve my respect. That doesn't mean that I won't disagree with them, point out what I feel is wrong with their viewpoint, etc. But in the end, I feel that people's opinions deserve respect regardless of their merit. And I'm not ashamed of that view.
I want to add that this is a matter of personality. (If any of you know the Myers-Briggs typology, I think it's often a matter of T vs. F types.) To some people, a person and their ideas are separable. They will happily attack a person's ideas, and don't understand why the person was hurt or offended; they were merely attacking the ideas, not the person. Conversely, they are happy to have their own ideas attacked, and don't mind defending them.
There are others, however, who believe that ideas are inseparable from people. (This can get into a philosophical debate... do ideas have inherent existence, or do they only exist when they are thought?) That doesn't mean that they're not willing to have discussions and have their ideas challenged; but it means that they consider an attack on an idea to be an attack on a person.
I've seen a quote attributed to H. L. Mencken. It says: "We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same way that we respect his belief that his wife is beautiful and his children are intelligent." Even if you believe that someone else is an idiot, what do you gain by actually telling them that? Absolutely nothing.
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District Convention,assembly,purpose of?
by Blueblades inwell it seems to me that the purpose of the district convention,assembly,has lost it's purpose.. i.e.no new light?.
no blood issues discussed?.
oh,i just realized the purpose of the district convention,assembly!.
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Euphemism
Heavens, no! They are based on the pattern of Israel's three yearly festivals, which had absolutely no correspondence, none whatsoever, to the festivals of the nations around them!
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Hot Legs!
by Englishman injust wondering... with all this hot weather we're having at the moment (92 in wsm, which for the uk is as hot as it gets), are sisters still expected to wear tights - that's pantyhose btw - to the meetings and when out in the ministry?.
her ladyship says that only old dears wear tights in summer anyway.. so, what is the current permitted apparel for sisters?
are trousers now allowed?
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Euphemism
Everywhere I've been, bare legs are normal for sisters in the summer. I know, however, that there are some parts of the US where it's not. That sort of thing has always varied by region, and sometimes also by congregation.
As far as pants, I've heard of dub women in very cold climates wearing pants out in service. Never seen it with my own eyes, however.