Posts by 4horsemen

15

Wanna hear some horses**t?!?!!?!

by ashitaka in

jw
friends

my parents just called and told me that the elders were going to forbid my sister to have her wedding in the hall, and refused an elder to give the talk because we were going to be in it.

there is no reason for this because we are not df'd or da'd.

i think my dad is going to type out his da letter tonite, he was so pissed.. to all active jw's who post here!!!.

4horsemen

ashitaka,

my condolences to your sister and family. Marriage is one of those special rare times in your life when you can hope people can just wish you well.

I dont know the particulars but the only argument (weak) would be if some of your family members in the ceremony were inactive/irregular in service/meeting attendance. Then you're looked at as if on your wayto DA. Obviously this is a judgement call on the part of the BOE but can you imagine when Jesus attended the wedding and turned the water into wine him asking before hand, "May I see your field service reports for the last six months?"

22

salvation seekers

by DIM in

jw
friends

all jw's care about are their own salvation or everlasting life.

yoyomama has verified this in the following post:.

"i love the elders in my congregation and i appreciate their effort to help me through my illness.

4horsemen

Nicely illustrated argument Frenchy.

What did Solomon say? Ah, yes, something about sheol and vanity. Pretty much what we have today. It's amazing that so many JW's think XJW's are unhappy because they are unhappy people and now that they have rejected "the truth"(tm), it's evident that there is something wrong with them. When it would be more accurate to say they were unhappy with a JW life and all that brought. Doesn't mean they cant be happy or that WTS is wrong. Just wrong for them. The interesting part of the illusion (or delusion) is that neither knows for there is no Witness life, or worldly life or any other kind of life. Just life. If you're happy being a JW, great. If not, great too. To say one form of life is better or more worthy than others is an insult to all simple men and women of honor who when they die, the loss of their presence in this world (the only one we have) diminishes us all.

151

active and happy jw

by scumgrief in

jw
friends

i am an active jw and was raised as one.

i have been watching the site for a while and thought it could benefit from the opinions of someone who is happily a member of the jw's.

i will not get into any argumets that lead to nothing except name calling, and will not talk with anyone who is just plain mean (plenty of them in here).

4horsemen

SG,

Welcome.

I mean that. Any JW who can be civil in their discussion of religion, read, and post to a board in which basically they are forbidden, represents to me someone who is at least not afraid to think. Congratulations.

That said you said the following, "I have been reading here for a while out of curiosity I suppose, and decided to speak up finally because a lot of things that are said here about the wts and congregations are outright lies, some that make me laugh they are so preposterous."

Could you be specific? What lies? Can you cite your proofs when you opine on your arguments?

At present I just have one question for you:

Have you researched your religion? If so, could you detail that journey?

Good health to you.

"Religion is that which keeps the poor people from murdering the rich." -Napoleon

18

Mysterious Ways

by alienone in

jw
friends

i think everyone is missing the point by trying to argue for and against the wtbts using words and "logical argument".

clearly, god did not want the truth to be obvious and, scripturally, it is apparent that it would not be.

jesus said that only "a few" would find the truth in these last days.

4horsemen

alienone,

Its a circular argument. You cannot be grateful to god for life, unless you are ALIVE. You might argue that if you love your own life more than god, maybe you're not deserving of life?

Consider, Peter. He rejected even _knowing_ Jesus to his face. Three times. In one night! Kill him right? He was afraid wasnt he? For what? His life? YES.

But Jesus reads hearts not their outwardly pretense. That is why Peter went on to his acts. Even after he died, he had to get the apostles out of their fishing boats. No fear, apathy, or selfnishness there, is there?

Please read again and try to understand what Jesus said regarding mercy versus sacrifice as he demonstrated time and time again.

When you step down from judge, believe me, your heart feels much lighter.

18

Mysterious Ways

by alienone in

jw
friends

i think everyone is missing the point by trying to argue for and against the wtbts using words and "logical argument".

clearly, god did not want the truth to be obvious and, scripturally, it is apparent that it would not be.

jesus said that only "a few" would find the truth in these last days.

4horsemen

My post got cut off. Continuing...

You are right about one thing though, when events like those of Sept 11 take place and there is an influx of inactive ones rushing back to the KH, who do they think they are fooling? But you know what, it's not so much "selfish" as it is fear that has been conditioned and instilled by an organization comprised of MEN. And who doesnt want to live? They just want to live on their own terms. Free from fear, guilt, feeling shame/unworthy, judged, duped, exploited. Did I leave any out?

As far as JW's NOT being selfish? Are you serious? I say it again. If Jehovah said to your face that your assignment for 1000 years was to make Death Valley, (and not that 3 acre property overlooking the Pacific)into its share of Paradise, and instead of cornish game hens with the trimmings to eat, you should be content with "food and covering" ie beans and rice everyday, you dont think a majority of "loving brothers" wouldn't be grumbling?

18

Mysterious Ways

by alienone in

jw
friends

i think everyone is missing the point by trying to argue for and against the wtbts using words and "logical argument".

clearly, god did not want the truth to be obvious and, scripturally, it is apparent that it would not be.

jesus said that only "a few" would find the truth in these last days.

4horsemen

alienone you wrote: "Clearly, God did not want the truth to be obvious..."

As Pilate asked of the Christ, "What is Truth?"

Here is Gods truth: "Serve me or die!" This has been his truth from the start. If he exists, if as the Creator of all that is, he has the has the right to this decree. Nothing I can do about. But for him to rig the game so I cant find out that truth with myriad religions, philosophies, delusions, and what not that pass as 'truth', well, then he is one sick, twisted, personage.

What possible justification can there be for a "serve me or die" mentality when generations of lives have been altered, ruined, ended because of these truths?

15

Worth

by joelbear in

jw
friends

following up on my self esteem thread, i have been doing some thinking about worth and self worth and what makes people worth something.. how do you define worth?.

everybody's worth can be defined monetarily by how many assets he/she owns but those are not the person's worth, they are they worth of what they own.. to the world in general, each individual is not worth much.

i would say that the amount of worth is infinitesimal when put up against 6 billion humans (not counting the trillions of other living entities alive at any one point in time) and then also put up against all the humans that have ever lived.. its hard to compare your worth to einstein, newton, salk and a handful of others whose lives have actually shifted the human experience positively.

4horsemen

Joelbear,

I would say "worth" is connected with growth.

The source of your strength(worth) can never be something you're ever afraid of losing.

What is best in you? That is worth. What you might consider as a weakness others might see as worth.

By this even "bad" things can be worthy. For example, my time with the WTS, while for the duration of the experience on the whole was "bad" now I am seeing just how worthy it was. I would not be the person I am today without those events.

I remember a conversation my dad had with my aunt(a strident JW) regarding homosexuality. My dad pointed out to my aunt that God loves homosexuals, he might not approve of their conduct (aunt citing the usual scriptures) but that did not mean he hated them. She couldnt accept that.

I realized he was right. One of my favorite music groups lead singer in high school was was either bi-sexual, or homosexual. Does it matter? His talent, the range of his voice, were extrordinary. Of course as a homosexual, I denied my acknowledgement of his ability and disowned being a fan completely. It wasn't cool. But what I was really was doing was labeling myself. He existed as a person with his own worth and I could not accept him and all that he was for who he was. He simply did not fit in my "approved" view of the world.

That conversation between my dad and my aunt had worth, because I saw my petty judgements and experienced growth. That is worth. You dont need to be Einstein, Salk or a yogi to do that.

If you want to change the world, change yourself first. Because it's only when you've changed, grown, if you will, that you realize and understand what little chance you have of "making" others change. But perhaps through your example you may help them question their future growth.

43

Are you afraid?

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

are you afraid of death?

4horsemen

YoYo,

Are you afraid of life?

Life is a time for making choices. Death is a time for remembering how we chose. Sometimes those memories are not always plesant.

Especially if you're my grandfather (born in 1915) who sacrificed all for "the Truth(tm)" and come to the realization that if it wasnt for the planning and real life sacrifice of my "worldly" grandma (1913) you'd be eating catfood and living under a bridge.

I might be afraid to die then.

25

Funerals

by Xena in

jw
friends

i haven't been to a "worldly" funeral...well ever that i can remember.

all the funerals i have been to have been jw ones where they use it as another opportunity to preach to everyone in sight.

they usually make a token mention of the dead loved one and then begin with the resurrection and earthly paradise and how you have to be a jw to get there.. today i went to my aunts funeral.

4horsemen

Xena, congrats on the expansion of your awareness.

Sidenote of curiousity: Did you have a awkward feeling attending a funeral in non Kingdom Hall setting?

I always felt self conscious guilt on attending functions (weddings, funerals) in "Babylon the Greats" halls. I wonder where that feeling came from?

Or conveniently getting a hot dog when national anthem was played at a ball game.

B.F. Skinner must be smiling.

12

where can one find faith?

by conflicted in

jw
friends

in an earlier post larsguy said the bible wasn't written for the layperson, but only for serious scholars and followers of christ.. .

...you imagine the bible is supposed to be a nice easy book without complexities to confound people, when in fact, if you actually read the bible you'd know that is precisely the case.. the bible is meant for christ and his followers specifically and not for outsiders!.

didn't you read in scripture when the disciples asked jesus why he spoke in parables that he told them that these secrets were for them and so that the outsiders, looking in vain, would not understand?.

4horsemen

Conflicted you wrote:

"So now I'm confused - how am I supposed to gain or attain faith in Christ or the Scriptures when I'm not even supposed to be able to understand it - it wasn't written for my benefit."

Conflicted a better question...

If you had gained/attained this faith, what would you do with it?

What's stopping you from doing that now?

"We fight so that we may stay alive; but dont forget to live."-G. Ashe