Posts by 4horsemen

12

joke time

by BATHORY in

this ones for unc.

a team of archaeologists was excavating in israel when they came upon a cave.

you see, im a genie, and ive been trapped in that bottle for a thousand years.

4horsemen

A joke for Englishman...

A grasshopper walks into a bar, the bartender walks over and says, "you know we have a drink named after you." The grasshopper says, "Really? You have a drink named Fred?"

81

Education Survey

by larc in

jw
friends

education was strongly discouraged among the witnesses.

i am curious as to how many of you went on for further education and in what fields.

i will go ahead and list the ones i already know.. larc - advanced degrees in organizational psychology.

4horsemen

Iarc,

Undergrad level: Double major; Economics/Cognitive Science U.C.S.D
Grad level: M.B.A, Stanford University

Interesting that the only JW who encouraged me to go to college (other than my dad, he saved my life) was an engineer. Go figure.

25

-some of you might recognize that caption as the title to one of merle and willie's biggest hits but this is not about drugs and alcohol but about something many of us here hold in common.. i have read many reasons stated here for those who have left the organization either formally (through df'ing or da'ing) and those that are still technically in but mentally out.

some (quite a few as i expected) have left to pursue lifestyles inconsistent with teachings which they evidently once held dear (they were questioned about those beliefs prior to baptism) but have now abandoned.

that reasoning is absurd but it makes good sense to the rank and file.

4horsemen

Frenchy,

An excellent post. That is all I can say. Your sentiments echo my own.The only thing I can add is saying related to balance which goes:

If you are what you do, then when you dont, you aren't. Anything (not just be a JW) which totally dominates your way of life to a degree where it forges a lifestyle to the exclusion of living, ultimately, I think is not healthy.

Now, I wasnt there, and dont know if Jesus had a choice in the matter but he took such ownership in his occupation, that he was known as "the Carpenter". Think he did crappy work?

In short Jesus, (and a few of us) are whole souled in all that they do, not just focused in a extremely narrow aspect of their lives. The WTS IMHO encourages such extremes to the (almost) total dereliction of other facets of life.

"We fight so that we may keep alive. But dont forget to live." -G. Ashe

151

active and happy jw

by scumgrief in

jw
friends

i am an active jw and was raised as one.

i have been watching the site for a while and thought it could benefit from the opinions of someone who is happily a member of the jw's.

i will not get into any argumets that lead to nothing except name calling, and will not talk with anyone who is just plain mean (plenty of them in here).

4horsemen

Exactly JoelBear

SG will get around to questions and we'll get to know his perspective as he posts in other threads. The dog pile is on because as we well know when we were dubs to find a JW even _willing_ to have an open mind and discuss not Babylon the Great faults, but the "true" religion without calling everyone who can demonstrate credible proofs Apostate, is well, uncommon.

Off topic to Bridgette:

I only know you from your posts but I am (not just happy) but proud of you for pursuing you college degree. Dont beat yourself up with your imagined old age in relation to what is "normal" for college timeframe. Only 22% of the working population in US has a college degree. Whether they are 21,31, or 51. Give yourself many pats on the back.

51

Crisis of Conscience: POLL

by Grout in

jw
friends

well, i'm finally reading coc, and i must tell you that despite already being an ex-dub i was *shocked*.

the thing that got me was the gb's apparently unselfconsciously acting above all the rules that they would apply so harshly to everyone else.

maybe i'm naive, but i didn't expect that level of hypocrisy.. so what did you find most shocking in coc?

4horsemen

Pg 250.

Where there was apparently serious consideration tying "this generation" not to 1914 events but 1957 in order to correlate with Sputnik launch thus fulfilling Matt 24:29,30.

9

Unconditional Love...No Carrot

by ballistic in

jw
friends

a question that has bothered me, even when pioneering and the strongest of witnesses is, why do people serve god in order to receive something in return?.

the bible says to love god with your whole heart, mind and soul.

if you take away the carrot of the new system, how many witnesses would go from door to door, study, meditate, attend meetings and assemblies or even show an interest?.

4horsemen

Motivation = motive + action.

This isnt just a religious issue. Think about some mundane task, like picking up dog crap in your back yard. You dont have to do it, but if you dont...

Now imagine if your whole life involved "rewards" not much better than picking up said crap. Would you feel real motivation to do anything? People dont go to college to be mom and pop janitors.

Rewards, real or imagined are a coping mechanism. Reinforces behavior.

Think about yourself. How do you get yourself to do anything?

Either you move to a goal/objective (reward) or away from it(avoid punishment). We use both. Religion just uses it most effectively.

So, serve Jah and live in paradise OR be independent (ie Satan) of God have your temporary sinful pleasures and unnecessary heartache and eventually end up in sheol or worse.

They got ya coming or going, but its not just a religious thing

151

active and happy jw

by scumgrief in

jw
friends

i am an active jw and was raised as one.

i have been watching the site for a while and thought it could benefit from the opinions of someone who is happily a member of the jw's.

i will not get into any argumets that lead to nothing except name calling, and will not talk with anyone who is just plain mean (plenty of them in here).

4horsemen

SG,

Did I read right? You hunt? And so do many in your congregation?

With what? Bows? Guns?

I ask because I used to hunt in my younger days. How does you BOE get around gun/bow ownership? You know swords into plowshares et al etc.

You're in a band too? The things you are decribing are not unheard of in my experience but lets just say you'd be totally browbeaten into submission or accused of "indepent thought" if you persisted in such 'unapproved' activities.

Let me give you an example of just two things that made me go Hmmmm
both told to me from a still active elder who studied with me and who I call friend. This was some years back.

I was 18 or 19, cant remember and in college (browbeating starts)and the subject of dating/marriage came up.

This was my question point blank...

4horsemen, "----- if I were of marrying age and NOT married by the fifth woman I dated, would you come and speak to me? (ie taking dating seriously, not for recreation, or to develop socially)

Elder friend, "yes, I would speak with you, and advise you to consider not to consider dating until you were ready to commit to marriage."

Now, what would you say SG if someone told you that each woman you dated and didnt marry basically reduced your field of selection 20 percent?

Whoa Nellie!

Or if you played basketball (in high school another no-no) and still played in college and do to this day, have very same elder friend tell you that you should consider not playing with "worldly" bad associations but rather after service on Sat come play softball with the cong. with ages from 7-70?

Basically, what would you do if when you played your music for the Elders they DID NOT approve and told you to quit listening to it? If you did Big Jah would not approve. How would you feel about that?

It's these browbeatings and similar that made us question just exactly who we were living our lives for.

Again, good to see a JW thinking outside the WTS box. Keep on keeping on.

15

Wanna hear some horses**t?!?!!?!

by ashitaka in

jw
friends

my parents just called and told me that the elders were going to forbid my sister to have her wedding in the hall, and refused an elder to give the talk because we were going to be in it.

there is no reason for this because we are not df'd or da'd.

i think my dad is going to type out his da letter tonite, he was so pissed.. to all active jw's who post here!!!.

4horsemen

ashitaka,

my condolences to your sister and family. Marriage is one of those special rare times in your life when you can hope people can just wish you well.

I dont know the particulars but the only argument (weak) would be if some of your family members in the ceremony were inactive/irregular in service/meeting attendance. Then you're looked at as if on your wayto DA. Obviously this is a judgement call on the part of the BOE but can you imagine when Jesus attended the wedding and turned the water into wine him asking before hand, "May I see your field service reports for the last six months?"

22

salvation seekers

by DIM in

jw
friends

all jw's care about are their own salvation or everlasting life.

yoyomama has verified this in the following post:.

"i love the elders in my congregation and i appreciate their effort to help me through my illness.

4horsemen

Nicely illustrated argument Frenchy.

What did Solomon say? Ah, yes, something about sheol and vanity. Pretty much what we have today. It's amazing that so many JW's think XJW's are unhappy because they are unhappy people and now that they have rejected "the truth"(tm), it's evident that there is something wrong with them. When it would be more accurate to say they were unhappy with a JW life and all that brought. Doesn't mean they cant be happy or that WTS is wrong. Just wrong for them. The interesting part of the illusion (or delusion) is that neither knows for there is no Witness life, or worldly life or any other kind of life. Just life. If you're happy being a JW, great. If not, great too. To say one form of life is better or more worthy than others is an insult to all simple men and women of honor who when they die, the loss of their presence in this world (the only one we have) diminishes us all.

151

active and happy jw

by scumgrief in

jw
friends

i am an active jw and was raised as one.

i have been watching the site for a while and thought it could benefit from the opinions of someone who is happily a member of the jw's.

i will not get into any argumets that lead to nothing except name calling, and will not talk with anyone who is just plain mean (plenty of them in here).

4horsemen

SG,

Welcome.

I mean that. Any JW who can be civil in their discussion of religion, read, and post to a board in which basically they are forbidden, represents to me someone who is at least not afraid to think. Congratulations.

That said you said the following, "I have been reading here for a while out of curiosity I suppose, and decided to speak up finally because a lot of things that are said here about the wts and congregations are outright lies, some that make me laugh they are so preposterous."

Could you be specific? What lies? Can you cite your proofs when you opine on your arguments?

At present I just have one question for you:

Have you researched your religion? If so, could you detail that journey?

Good health to you.

"Religion is that which keeps the poor people from murdering the rich." -Napoleon