it was asked below if c-14 dating is an outdated technology.
not to my knowledge.
c-14 is viable for former living organisms that have been dead less than 60,000 years.
C14 is now pretty damn good.
Contamination is the only major problem.
Oh, and nuclear testing would make things younger if it did anything - I have no idea if there is C14 in fallout, but assuming it did and contaminated a sample, it would mean there was MORE C14 than there should be, which would result in a younger age being given.
Normally the creationists and Dubs only wail if the dates are too old for them to handle.
has anyone out there ever pondered that question?
i remember when i was a little boy i always seemed to feel so close to god.
my family was not and still isn't very religious, so why did i turn out to be that way at such a young age?
The field of twin studies has shed some light on the old 'nurture vs. nature' debate.
Many people have held that one's upbringing is of far greater influence than one's genes.
Whilst 'nurture' is still regarded as important, it's amazing how much is buried in the genes.
If one of a pair of twins bought up seperately from their twin turns out to be gay, it is twice as likely that their twin will be gay, even if they grow up with no knowledge of each other in different environments. If they are fraternal twins, it's lower, if just normal sinlings then only slightly above the average for society.
That doesn't mean all homosexuals are 'born that way', but it shows that for many being gay is part of their natural make-up. And if some people are gay without it being due to their gene's, so what?
Funnily enough, twin studies have shown relgious inclination is about as genetic as homosexuality.
If one of a pair of identical twins seperated at birth is very religous, it is far more likely than normal for their seperated twin to share their depth of religious devotion, even though the actual religion might vary according to the family they were bought up in.
If I get a chance I'll post some URL's, but I'm at work and busy today.
Of course, the question of WHY religious inclination is a genetic inheritable component is a different one.
My personal take is that it ISN'T religion that some of us are genetically inclined towards. Religion is the path taken to fufil needs.
The needs of community and of belonging and of belief - and I don't neccesarily mean belief in god, but a suseptability towards belief.
It would be a trait that would be positively selected by evolution, as people with that trait would form more succesful communities than those without.
People without an inclination towards community and belonging, and without that suseptability towards belief would be less inclined towards communities and less able to conform to their structures as they wouldn't have that binding ability to believe in their community and its values.
Also, a community with people with this inclination towards belief would survive better as they would be more willing to be lead by a leader, as they would believe in him. There would be less dissention and factionalism as a dominant alpha-male would be less likely to be opposed.
Fun isn't it?
i have been lurking around here for quite some time now, posted a few short replies, and engaged in a little chat from time to time.
its almost hard to remember, just a few months back, feeling like i was the only one to live through a jw experience and not be sorry that i am no longer a part of it.
i am very happy to have found this site.. i would like to better introduce myself as i have seen several others do.. i was born in '78 to a fanatical jw mother and an unbelieving alcholic father.
Dear hef,
Welcome.
It's true that many people here eithet got in as adults or remained in when they became adults.
I've only met a few xJW's other than online; they were all of the out early not thought about it and a bit uneasy talking about it catagory.
I do sometimes wonedr what would of happened if I'd got out early, in my late teens, instead of in my late 20's.
I found sites online in about '96-'97, some three years after walking away.
As I'd been in longer and had really tried to believe, finding a community of people with similar experiences was very beneficial. There's loads of junk floating around the head of an ex-cultist that can usefully be cleared up.
You might not have as much as someone who'd really believed at some point, but I'm sure you'll still find this a useful experience.
Be aware that sites differ. This is fairly Christian, but a good mix all-told. Another good site is at www.support4xjws.org; that site is very atheistic/humanistic, although there are some Christian posters.
Most sites will simply try to sell you a different brand of soap, or are a bit barmy and monoistic in someway, so finding good ones is hard.
Good luck
ok all you unwelcome one wannabee's here it is - .
unwelcome one at jw.com official checklist.
1)has janh & comf overruled charter 19 of the universal declaration of human rights & run crying to simon posting a request for your deletion from jw.com because you expressed ideas contrary to their "idea" (singular)?.
Wow, a whole post, with virtually no quotes ;-)
Okay goo...
1/ You bitch about people not liking what you say or do, and engage in your own personal psychodrama about not being wanted.
2/ When YOU don't like someone says or does, you act in a way at least as bad as those that you accuse of victimisation.
3/ The reason some people have labelled you a troll is you do run away from debates you have started, or fail to engage in them in a meaningful fashion, and you post in what seems a deliberately inflamatory fashion; you also try to wriggle out of owning any trouble you might have caused.
Two examples; the paedophillia post, which you never acknowledged as potentially offensive, and which you probably realised was going to get the knee-jerk reactions it did. I say you probably knew you'd get those knee jerk reactions, because if you hadn't meant to get them, when you got them, you'd of apologised.
The SLAM post is another example. If someon had done that to you, you would have been beside yourself in indignation, telling anyone who was willing to listen how unfair it all was that people picked on you. But you'd do it to someone else in a New York minute.
Therefore, all your bleating about getting deleted fails to raise any sympathy. I doubt if you will get deleted as you really aren't that important or disruptive even if you like to think you are. But the reaction you get from people is a result of your actions. You're labelled a troll becaue you act like one.
Don't whitter about the UN declaration of rights. If you're at party and someone is an asshole and gets chucked out by the host of the party, is the UN declaration of human rights applicable. In a pigs ear it is. The rules of conduct on-line are much as they are off-line; play the ass, get kicked.
Now, you may be someone whose just to fucked-up to 'play nice', and hasn't finished their 'victim' phase yet. In that case I wish you well but will mostly ignore what you have to say unless you 'play nice'.
You might genuinely not be aware YOU are responsible for how people treat you. Reaslising this might cause a change, or you might carry on play goo no see goo no say goo no speak and ignoring your own responsibility for what happens to you.
All the best
ok all you unwelcome one wannabee's here it is - .
unwelcome one at jw.com official checklist.
1)has janh & comf overruled charter 19 of the universal declaration of human rights & run crying to simon posting a request for your deletion from jw.com because you expressed ideas contrary to their "idea" (singular)?.
Ah, come on Bugeye. All you need to do is add a paragraph at the end saying, "Therefore we must trust to Jehovah, as we know nothing... etc. "
You know perfectly well that taking an example of the amount unknown in cosmology and extrapolating it to EVERYTHING is daft. MMM... I know six words of Mandarin Chinese, therefore it follows I know very little about everything else. True, but not true.
You can be dogmatic. Coffee smells good. Sex is great. Is it arrogant to have an opinion and defend it? Or, should one just walk away and leave the world to assholes? Obviously there seem to be two schools of though about whose the assholes; less obviously is that there are at least three schools of thought, as I strongly subscribe to the theory that EVERYONE is an asshole, and I'm not alone.
There's also a difference between unsupported unargued opinion throwing and name slurring and reasoned debate, even if the reasoned debate does use ad hominum.
Nice post, but I can't quite agree with the point you're making.
oh, goo, you still haven't bothered engaging in rational debate about the subject you wanted us to all SLAM Jan for, so as much as my fingers crave it, all I have for you is in these angle brackets;
< >
Oh, one more paragraph then; if you are deleted in two days it'll be sad; I hope it doesn't happen; it would be far nicer if you learnt to play nice. Pulling hair and gouging is bad. Oh,if you are deleted, will you rise again in three days? Stop being such a martyr. Just 'cause you were a victim of the Borg doesn't mean you have to play the victim your whole life - it took me a while to learn that one, I hope you do to.
if you're a disfellowshipped jw, and you find yourself in conversation with a jw who is unaware of your status, should you tell him/her that you are df'd?.
to admit to being df'd simply enables the other person in continuing along with their mistaken and unscriptural beliefs, rather like you going out and buying a bottle of whisky for an alcoholic.. df'ing is their problem - don't make it yours!.
englishman.
Well, I deliberately planned and enginnered my exit so I wasn't DF'd.
I felt it would make life easier with my family and ex-wife and kids if I was a 'walk-away'.
Side point; expatbrit, to what degree of seriousness do you use the term 'faded' with? I used to say 'fallen-away' until I realised I didn't fall, I walked. For me, overcoming loaded language was important. Ame doesn't neccesarily apply to you, but maybe 'quenched' is better than 'faded'! 8-)
As I was saying, I walked away, and when I was eventually spoken to by elders when I admitted adultery after about eighteen years out, I managed to be 'repentant', at the same time as saying I didn't 'feel ready to go back to the meetings'. They huffed and puffed about DF'ing, but I pointed out a Watchtower that said if you were inactive for six months you weren't really a Witness any longer.
Believe it or not, it worked, although if I'd been dealing with three elders with a combined IQ of over 100 I might not have got away with it.
Putting myself in your situation; well, what business is it of theirs too look down their nose at you through cult-blinded eyes.
They might be really nice people in some ways, but prod the right button and you get the attack of the cult zombie, and Borg freak at DF'd people, even if they are on another level a nice person.
By not telling, you can get past the programming. Say someone sat next to you on an airplane is a dub. Tell them when you get off, if at all, so they have the fact that they sat next to a DF'd person without the demons eating their eyes, and enjoyed their company, and though what a nice person they were, eat through their cognitive dissonance filter. Alternately play the 'studied a while' person, and plant tickyticky mind bombs all over their head with an innocent smile.
They bastards must know I'm a deceitful bastard, as I never get a chance to do anything; one call in seven years, and I didn't have time to talk as I had a girl in bed!
I do think under circumstances, there are good reasons to talk to them; maybe just one sentence from you will be all they need to start to get out.
Tickyticky time bombs - we all had one go off in our heads, even if the fuse was very long.
So let's be little firestarters!!
hello all, registered just to post this and see what you all had to say about this.
i, for one, am in shock.
it was anounced today on "extra" and they said we would soon see a change in his music because he was "marrying his music to his religion.
slipnslide; nice, but I still say 1975 (or as you rightly point out with 1913, the year before) scans better.
It's sung on five beats, and given a choice between doubling 'thur' to 'thu-ur', and sruntching 'se-ven-ty' into 'sevn-ty', I'd so for the scruntch. It's more musical. Also, 'nine' ends in a vowel, and 'teen' ends in a constanant, so the rhyme is affected, whereas 'four' ends in a vowel sound in most accents (unless you come from somewhere they roll terminal r's, like 'fourrr').
Nine-teen-nine-ty-nine
Nine-teen-sevn-ty-four
Nine-teen-thur-ur-teen
1974 is my choice.
As for the 'one nine one four party over' bit, I always heard that as 'two thou-sand zero zero par-ty over' I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the year is sung over five beats.
Howabout 'nine-teen seven-ty-five'?
Whatever! Great song though!
ok all you unwelcome one wannabee's here it is - .
unwelcome one at jw.com official checklist.
1)has janh & comf overruled charter 19 of the universal declaration of human rights & run crying to simon posting a request for your deletion from jw.com because you expressed ideas contrary to their "idea" (singular)?.
Aw, goo, if you're on a witch-hunt again I'm hurt you left me out!
I am amazed that you managed to type so many words without cut&pasting someone's word and making them bold.
You actually seem to be the one offended by people having ideas other than yours, so if anyone is breaking Charter 19, it's you. However, your application of Charter 19 is legally dubious, and it's actually intended to stop real persecution, not stop your ikkle feelings getting hurt when you say something stupid and someone calls you on it.
How come freedom of expression applies to you, but when people use freedom of expression against you, by calling you a troll, or debating your motives it doesn't apply? Are saying is that Charter 19 was designed to let goo be an asshole, but anyone saying anything bad about ikkle goo can't site freedom of expression?
That's full of shit.
I've seen manipulators online before, and some have been very very good. You're not very good at manipulating. Quit
This is basically what you are saying;
"Hi, I'm goo. Let me say anything I like about anyone and let me try to play with your heads, but no one can say anything bad about me
No, stop ignoring me!! I want to be a martyr! Make me feel special!"
Yawn x ten to the nine.
Hopefully you will realise it's not working and start making sense or stop wasting bandwidth.
Love and kisses
hello all, registered just to post this and see what you all had to say about this.
i, for one, am in shock.
it was anounced today on "extra" and they said we would soon see a change in his music because he was "marrying his music to his religion.
Nice points, although messenger, if you describe Prince as having a 'repressed labido' (sic) I kinda wonder when you last heard any music by him, or anything about his lifestyle! Re-organise these words about Prince into a well know sentence; That. Anything. Moves. F*cks.
'Cream', 'Head', De Me Baby', 'Soft and Wet', 'Horny Toad', I Love U in Me', 'Irresistable Bitch', 'Scarlet Pussy' (a well known animal lover is Prince). What about 'Sexy MF'? That's just song titles. The lyrics! 'My tounge in the V of her love' ('When 2R in Love'), 'sixty-two positions in a one night stand' (Gett Off)- as you say, it's endless.
Is he going to have to withdraw previous music, such as he's able to contractually? Maybe put a little bit at the front of his videos like in 'Thriller'? Or stickers on his album 'Prince in no way condones pre-marital or extramarital sex but celebrates human sexuality much as the Song of Solomon does'. Ah, the Song of Soloman; best known lyric from; 'Your boobies are like pillars baby! Ouuuuah! Whoah! Spread your honey-like sweetness for your king-thing!!'.
I like the song ideas, although I think '1975' scans better than '1914'. There's SO MANY!! 'Little Red Booklet', 'The Soc' ('The Cross'), 'When Dubs Cry', 'Dub Life' ('Pop Life'), 'I Preach to You' ('I Feel For You'), 'Let's Go RV' ('Lets Go Crazy'), 'Sexy GB' ('Sexy MF'), 'Nothing Compares to the WBTS'. Of course, some don't need a new title; 'Sign of the Times', 'God', 'Power Fantastic', 'Another Lonely Christmas'.
The poor poor sad little muppet.
If only he had someone as a friend who would occasionally say 'Prince, you are full of shit, get a life', he probably wouldn't be embarking on a (hopefully) short entanglement with the Borg.
His real name is Prince Roger Nelson, but he'll probably be advised that 'Prince' is a little showy and have to be called 'Roger' or 'Brother Nelson'! Alternately I think 'The Jehovah's Witness Formerly known As Prince', or TJWFKAP (T'jwaf-cap) is nice.
What messenger says about conventions got me thinking; bowing by reflex during applause? Climbing to the top of a speaker stack and dancing during the songs? And public talks! Have you seen what Prince does to mike stands? Dry-humpadelic!!
Of course, we can look forward to the 'coming out album', after he's disfellowshipped for having sex with pioneers (all of the ones in the Minnesota).
He'd cover 'All Along The Watchtower (told a pack of lies)'.
Life IS fun...
Excellent and well written post that started off this thread.
crossroads, you say that anyone who started a revolution was in the same boat?
In my massively arrogant and ill-thought out opinion *smile* that's a pretty big and rather incorrect generalisation.
I would agree that fighting for freedom can be 'good'.
But any freedom fighter who attacks a target knowing there will be civilian casualties is a murdering scumbag. It is not neccesary.
Don't talk to me about collective resposibility; talk to me about children being blown up.
I cannot think of a cause that justfies that. I know that you don't mean that there IS, but it's overly simplistic to see The American War of Independence and the Blast as the same sort of thing, which is what you imply.
It's funny how often freedom fighters are associal criminally inclined cowards; the IRA were far more enthusiastic about blowing up shops and millitary bandsmen than real soldiers or millitary installations, and there not the only examples of selective 'bravery'.
