Posts by Abaddon

44

Dawkins on Jehovah's Witnesses' "Creation" book

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

has anyone read dawkins new book the god delusion yet?

he discusses the creation book on pages 119-121. he says that he discusses this particular tract only because it has had such a wide circulation - no fewer than 6 of which have been sent to him personally.

well i think he has at least 7 copies by now because i personally know one witness who sent him one following his recent the roof of all evil?

Abaddon

TitHat

Watch your spelling, I'll watch mine.

Abandon, What do dinosaurs have to do with evolution? I am sure God created the dinosaurs!

Yes dear. You being sure means what exactly? If you were not a bridge builder and you assurred me a bridge I could see was VERY shakey would not collapse if I walked over it, I would not risk your amateur advice costing me my life. Why should I take you amateur advice on a vastly complicated scientific subject? Do you go to the plumber to have your teeth checked? No. So don't expect me to consider you being sure as an indiactor of anything when it somes to science.

As for the spaghetti monster it could be applied in the same way as Dawkins compares it to those who believe in a Creator.

Read what I wrote and acutally think about it. You are missing my point by miles. The spaghetti monster and god are compared as neither has proof. Evoltution has proof; dem bones dem bones dem dry bones. They show a steady progression of development called 'EVOLUTION'.

What made creatures evolve is a DIFFERENT thing. There is a theory of evolution that explains the evolution seen in the fossil record. Some believe god made progenitor types which could evolve within certain bounds. Others believe god created each type. Others believe in non-Christian creative myths that can be interpretted either as ftting in with the physical evidence of the fossil record or not.

The delusional state of NO facts provided by evolutionist that life got here by chance.

Why is it neccesary to lie like this? Since when is violating your own supposedly Christian principles right if you do it to defend your beliefs?

All that is available to evolutionist is what God has provided.

Which god? Allah? Brahman? Thor?

It is about time that you realise TitHat that you are an atheist too; I am just more thorough as I don't believe in any god and you don't believe in all gods but one. When you tell me why you disbelief in all the other gods, I will tell you why I don't believe in your one... although one would hope the shoe had dropped by such time as you providing me with such an explanation.

18

Why all the Athiest/Christian bashing?

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i know i am different than many, and though i accept christianity, i just don't understand the constant debate and haggle over the matter.

not a week goes by without one side starting a fight with the other, then the other retorts with it's position.

lots of wordsmiths appear and try to reason above the other persons head, and make naked accusations about an entire class of persons unknown.

Abaddon

I think another important factor in these discussions is the nature of beliefs that are supported by some.

For example, anyone who believes in a flat-earth, the re-establishment of slavery, beating women, that the Earth is the centre of the solar system, that children can give informed consent to sex, that Santa Claus is real, that a woman saying 'no' is saying 'yes', that African races are inferior, that Jews are evil and out to take over the world, that the Holocaust didn't happen or that a holographic projection of planes was the only thing thatb hit the World Trade Centre are idiots.

You may choose to express it differently, but I doubt if under the surface you think any different UNLESS you hold one of those above beliefs. They are 'no braners'; subjects that any reasonable person will disagree with.

There are some beliefs that the athiest group feel belong in the above catagory. Direct Creation and the Noachian Flood, for example. Those supporting those beliefs, as they use a different paradigm, take the grouping of their beliefs with those held by flat-earthers, nazis, pedophiles and rapists as a deep insult.

Yet when called to differentiate their belief with those of the above group they can not do so to the satisfaction of atheists - which insults them again.

Some people feel that people holding 'fringe beliefs' like Direct Creation and the Noachian Flood should be treated differently to those holding 'outmoded beliefs' like racism or flat-earthism.

But if someone is arguably an idiot for believing the Holcaust didn't happen, why are they NOT an idiot for believing in the Noachian Flood?

Importantly, most of us happily will describe JW beliefs in the most uncomplementary terms even to the face of those holding them. Why is is suddenly wrong to be so open about one's opinion when one describes beliefs that have a similarly shakey foundation as those held by JW's?

Obviously a lot of the classification is down to opinion. But to me there is often a double standard applied; ream the Dubbies but don't be too hard on the Creationists and Noachain Flood believers.

The VAST majority of Christians in the developed world hold beliefs that DO NOT fit into the group I have discussed above. Except maybe in parts of the USA (according to surveys) where literalistic fundamentalism is very popular.

18

Why all the Athiest/Christian bashing?

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i know i am different than many, and though i accept christianity, i just don't understand the constant debate and haggle over the matter.

not a week goes by without one side starting a fight with the other, then the other retorts with it's position.

lots of wordsmiths appear and try to reason above the other persons head, and make naked accusations about an entire class of persons unknown.

Abaddon

I don't think that anyone doesn't think we are free to believe what we want.

We are also free to believe what another believes is offensive, or nonsense.

I would first differentiate between Christians. I think there is an important distinction between what I would call literal fundamentalists; those who take the Bible literally and have very 'traditional' interpretations of what the Bible means and what god is, and more liberal Christian thinkers.

That later group and the athiestic lobby rarely argue in the way the first group and athiests argue. A liberal christian and an atheist can agree on many things - apart on the existence of god, which they'd probably agree is undeterminable (although both would still feel their opinion on the existence of god was more valid than the other's).

I suggest that the difference in paradigms between atheists and literal fundamentalists is the main cause for conflict.

Literal fundamentalists to an atheist believe in utter nonsense; to literal fundamentalists atheists are the enemy and have been decieved, probably due to their own wanton desires.

A second reason is the (and I stress this is opinion) misconception some people have; this is not a soap box, for all that some use it as one. Some people object to the very fact others disagree with them in a forum for discussion.

People can disagree with me about evolution until the cows come home; I am not insulted or bothered by it, in fact I enjoy the debate. The criticism that certain literal fundamentalists might pour on those beliefs means nothing. If someone has a belief in ghosts and someone criticises those beliefs, then they seem far more likely to be offended. This is in part due to the fact that the paradigm they use is one relying on personal experience rather than one more relaint upon evidence, and as such doubters doubt THEM. If an atheist is doubted it is the facts of their argument that are doubted; it's less personal.

As such I believe that a certain amount of oppostional discourse between the above two paradigms or lobbies is inevitable as it is implicit in the characteristics of those paradigm.

44

Dawkins on Jehovah's Witnesses' "Creation" book

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

has anyone read dawkins new book the god delusion yet?

he discusses the creation book on pages 119-121. he says that he discusses this particular tract only because it has had such a wide circulation - no fewer than 6 of which have been sent to him personally.

well i think he has at least 7 copies by now because i personally know one witness who sent him one following his recent the roof of all evil?

Abaddon

TopHat

No silly, you are comparing a parody of the idea of god (the existence of which has no evidence) with something that has evidence.

Or are you gonna tell us god put the dinosaur bones there to fool us?

Looking forward to your reply, as always...

14

What Is Wrong With the Religion "Wicca"?

by Dark_Princess in

i am currently an agnostic, i am suffering from depression because i cant seem to know or realize if this "jehovah's witness religion" is really true..i mean what is so true about it.

im only 17 years old and i feel that i need to find my religion.

right now im currently dating a wiccan.

Abaddon

Hi Princess...

I am currently an agnostic, I am suffering from depression because i cant seem to know or realize if this "Jehovah's Witness religion" is really true..I mean what is so true about it. Im only 17 years old and i feel that i need to find my religion. Right now im currently dating a Wiccan. Hes not bad at all. hes like one of the nicest ppl u can ever meet in ur life, but Why do JW's decieve him, along with other christians. I myself have thought about Joining in this religion for I see nothing wrong with it..I dont even know if i believe in The Devil Satan. I need help You Guys, and Im In desperate need of it. Tell me What is your view on Wiccan Witchraft. I LOVE IT!

Well, first of all my daughtér (16) is into Wicca as well; I can link you guys up. Send me a pm and I'll give you her E-mail.

Secondly, Jehovah's Witnesses are a 'high control group' or cult. They differ from an ordinary religion in setting thigs up to restrict your knowledge, your friends, and threaten you with taking away the friends you have if you do something wrong; and the 'somethings'are often NOT even in the Bible, they've just been made up by men.

Thirdly the words 'made up by men' are VERY relevent in talking about religion. Whilst the 'big question' of whether there is a god is arguably open, most religions if you look at them are made up be men. Wicca is no exception (I do mean 'mankind'when I type' men'by the way).

We dont really have much of an idea how wicca WAS practised - just like we don't really know how the Druids practised their faith, just how we don't know the steps to many traditional dances from centuries ago. Wicca, Druidism, and Morris Dancing are all attempt to bring an essentially dead religion (or dances) back to life and have been largely reinvented in the past two hundred years.

I say this so you're not taken in by other's beleif in it's 'genuineness'.

I also don;t think it matters. Just as religion once explained why lightning flashed (before we had meteorologists), so to this day religion provides answers. It used to provide answers for the outside world but now using religion to answer stuff about the outside world like 'where did we come from' just makes MORE questions than you started with. But for some people religion has a place in providing them answers for their internal world.

Don't make the mistake of assuming you NEED a religion. Religion is as of much use to some people as a bicycle is of use to a fish. Maybe you've grown up having religion chuicked at you and think it's needed. Maybe it is for YOU - but one can have a perfectly decent life without picking a religion.

All the best

Gyles

38

Question for the EX-JW:

by rezrez in

jw
friends

when you left the religion or cult, which religion did you convert to.

remember, i dont need to know why you left, i just want to which religion did you convert to.

Abaddon

mouthy

My friend is gay!! He flys your flag>>>>>Do you have a flag like that too. But he LOVES God/

I'm very happy thank you very much, but not quite gay.

As far as loving god does, thou art god, I am god, my cat is god... and maybe even god is god...

38

Question for the EX-JW:

by rezrez in

jw
friends

when you left the religion or cult, which religion did you convert to.

remember, i dont need to know why you left, i just want to which religion did you convert to.

Abaddon

I'm a born-again-atheist.

Once never saved, always never saved, in the name of the figment, the superstition and the highly gullable, forever and ever, Darwin.

Occasionally I cheat and imagine I have a cosmic relationship with rainbows...

55

My wife I love her but?

by skyking in

jw
friends

i just posted this on another thread and decided to post my own thread about it.. a few posters here that know me personally know about my amazing wife.

i had a very hard time accepting what i have learned about her.

she has a gift she has kept from the world until she was in her 30's.

Abaddon

skyking, jimbo... if you want privacy or confidentiality I think the smart thing to do is for you to continue your discussion in PM.

Pity paranormal powers don't protect your spouse from being spoken about in public behind her back when (as you seemingly know) she wouldn't want to be.

You amaze me...

51

Is there a bird watcher in the house?

by unclebruce in

jw
friends

this evening i went for a walk near the mouth of the bega river, several kilometres from my place.

i enjoyed the peace and took a few photos.. for several years the pelicans here were my concern (keeping an eye on them and occationally capturing them to remove fish hooks and the like.

while there a duck billed mud stinky arrived.

Abaddon

Are 'king parrots the same as 'king wombats or 'king 'roos? I find lots of Australians use the prefix 'KING' all the time, presumably it's something to show allegiance to the Royal Family...

87

What if she never leaves JWs? (The interminable waiting period...)

by AuldSoul in

jw
friends

this has nothing to do with whether i love my wife.

i always will.. pragmatically, i have come to the devastating conclusion that i don't want to be married to a jw.

any jw.. she asked me last night, "so, do you believe in santa clause, now?

Abaddon

You have my symapthy AuldSoul. For me this was a no brainer as when I got to the point of leaving the Borg my then wife had destoyed the love I had for her by repeated cruelty. Part of that cruelty was due to me disappointing her expectations.

She was reinstated after df'ing for f'ing around and getting pregnant from it. I was the MS son of big-time Elder. Easy access all areas, approval and status all in one hit.

However, I didn't turn out to be the theocratic force she wanted; we moved to the country, I didn't get made-up to MS again, and free of my parents was able to step off the treadmill and actually realise how much of my life was lived for other people.

Thus I got "her disapproval, her disappointment, her regret over my choices". She was also incapable of having anything any other way than her way, and if she didn't get it was as vicious as a rat with a flick-knife. She loved me for what she got from me, not for me, and even admitted she'd never been IN love with me.

I think anyone living indefinately in an environment where they can never do enough, where they are always at fault, where they are always wrong, are consigning themselves to a life of misery... and you don't deserve that. I couldn't do it, as I had no emotional compensation. Maybe you can if the love is still alive, but it is a bitter dish.

All the best

Gyles