Educated my ass! That's why most Pioneers are supported by their parents or are on Welfare, because they cannot get a decent job. If you started Pioneering like me @ the age of 16-20 (went to homeschool), then you mostly missed out on a higher education early in life. The Watchtower & Awake say the same shit over & over, so that basically it's worded a little differently the next year so it drills it in your head.. I could see how someone can become an expert because they update their memory bank over & over again on the same crap! Oh, & those who have gone to Bethel, usually have trouble getting a job after leaving.
FreeofGuilt
JoinedPosts by FreeofGuilt
-
11
"New light" on Independant thinking?
by figureheaduk ini've just been reading an article on the jwmedia site about a study into wt literature that has been ordered by a russian court.. http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?content=/region/europe/russia/english/releases/religious_freedom/rus_e030523.htm.
it goes into the usual wt waffle about the persecution and harrassment of jws, religious freedom etc, but the following quote caught my eye:the study also revealed a much higher level of education among jehovah's witnesses (when compared with that of the average muscovite), which tends toward independent rational thinking and decision-making.
now, this would give joe public that the average jw is therefore able to think for himself, and reach his own conclusions independantly.
-
-
-
27
Just saying Hi
by Ozzygal ini've been lurking for a while, and feeling a little guilty about being here.
you know, the ol' internet is evil thing.
it's been a big topic down our way recently.
-
-
FreeofGuilt
Ozzygal, Why are you feeling guilty? Are you still a JW? If you keep coming here & feel guilty, that should send you a message that you totally don't beleive all of the JW's propaganda, or you are still under their mind grip. Hope you will find some good info here, & keep coming back- Kristine
-
6
visits to inactive ones is there any directives recieved by elders
by quinah ini know i might have asked this before, but have the elders ever had any directive on visiting inactive ones with a view to finding out their current situation/feelings on being a witness, and then using a negative response as an "excuse" for disassociating them or disfellowshipping them?
i thought i had read some where that there had been a push on visiting inactive ones with a view to doing the above.
i have just mentioned this to the in-laws who are still in the borg, and they asked another elder who denys the fact that this would be done.
-
-
FreeofGuilt
I have the Watchtower cd rom from 1997, but I have a MAC. Does anyone know where we can get a pirated copy? I was trying to look up some info on the procedures of visiting inactive one..... Dang it-
-
83
District Assembly talks about apostates............
by integ indistrict assembly 5/24/03 3:40 pm "beware of the voice of strangers".. 1) counterfeit words: beware of those using "counterfeit words".
2) flirting: young ones need to avoid being lured into relationships with un-believers.. 3) you trust your christian parents...listen to them.
you also trust those taking the lead among you..such as elders.
-
-
FreeofGuilt
Hopefully, they will recognize us more @ their assemblies/conventions more... We must be creating quite a stir on the Internet. They just don't want the "sheep" to look at our "truths" & be turned away-- Kristine
-
117
Polytheism - Jehovah has same status as other gods
by Sirona inwho here is polytheistic?
is jehovah just another god?
is he on a par with osiris / pan / cernunnos / whoever?.
-
-
FreeofGuilt
Can't we all just get along?
-
19
Those "secret files" the elders kept on each & every one of us?
by FreeofGuilt ini have been out of the cult jw religion for 3 yrs now, but i need some help/suggestions, please.
i am not disfellowshipped, but i simply became "inactive" after i left home & got married... i was "publicly reproved" once, & was wondering about those "secret files" they have kept on me.
if you have ever been in the "back room" then you know what i am talking about.
-
-
FreeofGuilt
Thanks....!!!! I just found this so take a look @ www.bigwig.net/knots/nightmares/data.htm
-
1
Form requesting JW's to remove your records from their files & privacy act!
by FreeofGuilt init is well known that the watchtower cult society keeps records on everyone, even those who have died, or have been excommunicated, or those who have broke association due to personal reasons.
such records may disturb many as they feel they are being judged by what is on their files and record cards, which has information of how many hours per month they put in preaching and cult recruiting, from house to house.
well you are absolutely right!
-
-
FreeofGuilt
It is well known that the Watchtower cult society keeps records on everyone, even those who have died, or have been excommunicated, or those who have broke association due to personal reasons. Such records may disturb many as they feel they are being judged by what is on their files and record cards, which has information of how many hours per month they put in preaching and cult recruiting, from house to house. Well you are absolutely right! It is well known that the excuse for this is to be able to make up their "yearly world wide report book" If this was the case then these reports should be handed in anonymously! To prove that the watchtower cult does in fact keep records on it's members over many years, look at the quote from a letter reference and dated from the Watchtower cult HQ called "Bethel" at Mill Hill, North London. "SH June 19th 1995" In a dispute about their continuous reference to my track record as I had raised many points and written to the watchtower cult HQ i'e "Bethel" many times, they say to quote: "We have checked all our letters on file, which has resulted from your numerous letters over the years" This would also include any letters sent by cult elders, or the Watchtower HQ of correspondents from those in rank wanting information resulting in any investigation about you. This also goes for any wrong doing a person may have done. The fact that the Bible says: "Do not keep account of the injury" a text the Watchtower cult will quote often so that you will not keep account of errors they may have been guilty of, the watchtower cult society feel fully justified in keeping records of every personal detail about its members. I therefore wrote the following letter to request this information be removed and destroyed . . . due to my rights under the Data protection Act 1998 UK You may use this information to send to the Watchtower cult HQ in your area or local congregations You can also read the watchtowers reply that follows below and the new Data Protection Act 1998/9 also below. Click here to Print form below Remove My Records PERSONAL RIGHTS UNDER THE DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998/9 UK Name:____________________________________ Address: __________________________________ Attention: WTBS Bethel. ______________________ Congregation elders __________________________ Ref: Data Protection Act 1998/9 Date_________19_______ Dear sir I/We are writing this letter to you after long in-depth investigation into the procedures and polices of the Watchtower society and the teachings that after great research has proved to be in serious error according to the bible and that the society is both underhanded and deceptive in its dealings with individual members and in its presentation of facts to the public on many issues which is totally unscriptural, unchristian, not based on the bible and ethically wrong. I/We therefore as (well as my wife/Husband) have disassociated ourselves from the Legal body known as Jehovah witnesses, and no longer wish to be known as Jehovah Witnesses. ________________________congregation/Branch office has already been sent a copy of this letter. This leads us on to my next serious request and insistence. As from 1998/9 the Data Protection Act has been enforced for the benefit of all individuals (not just the WBTS). Failure to allow individuals this right is a criminal offence and one that can be enforced under law. I/We therefore now request that your policy to keep files on members whether they be active members, dis-associated or disfellowshipped or excommunicated and at both Watchtower/ HQ and any branch of the watchtower society and congregation level now be removed and destroyed. I/We request that all files, data, congregation record cards where my/our name (or that of my wife/husband) is mentioned, referred to, cited and spoken, written or labelled, tagged, be destroyed, be it in the form of electronic format or sources, disk, cassettes, video, phone vetting tapes, microfilm, micro dot, codes, cards, forms, papers letters, reports, or in any way shape or form, including storage in premises not of the WBTS , private homes, buildings, offices, safes, lock ups, and security boxes, vaults of any kind, kingdom hall safes, computer systems or even in transit of representatives of the WBTS laptop computers and other storage facilities, files etc and that any such record card in congregation files be it in any shape or form also be removed and destroyed I/We request written confirmation that such action has been undertaken and all files with reference to my name and (that of my wife) has been destroyed due to my right under the Data Protection Act 1998/9. Failure to do this , or... give confirmation to my/our request will result in my/our putting this in the hands of the data protection agencies to enforce with respect to my/our rights as a citizen of ________________under parliament/government. This also includes my/our right to deny you submitting records abroad to branch offices in any other country and the HQ at Brooklyn New York USA with out my/our consent and knowledge. I/We am stating firmly this day_________________ that if such a request is clearly denied and if this has been already undertaken that such transferring of records, files, by use of the Internet, emails, faxes, also to and from congregations and any such correspondents, in any other shape or form be ALSO destroyed etc. If at any time such material should surface and it come to light that files, documents have been kept for what ever reason, this will be taken as a breach of the Data Protection Act of 1998/9 and the Agency informed accordingly. I/We (myself / Wife / husband) have never signed any such agreement neither do I/we intend to, be it, to allow the WBTS to keep files, documents, data and personal information in any way shape or form. (Neither did I/we ever make vowels and get baptised into any man made organisation to be bound by any law systems, policies and rules to keep records and data. I/we dedicated to God through Christ and the spirit, to these alone, before you changed the Vowels against scripture and over stepped Christ command! I/We Therefore submit my/our request and await confirmation in writing that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, also known as the International Bible student association, and any other legal and non legal, term, tool, or named agency of the WBTS Honour this request in writing and forward this to us in due course, 1/ WBTS of Country:_______________________________ 2/ Local Body of elders of ________________________Congregation This letter has been submitted to both of the above. Thank you Mr__________________________________________ Mrs/Miss/Ms __________________________________ Below - The watchtowers (UK) reply sent Feb 9th 1999 Word for word quote: Ref: LEB:LSA February 9th 1999 This is in responce to your letter of Feb 1, 1999. You demand, pursuant to the data Protection Act 1998, that this society destroys all data that has reference to you and your wife. Our legal department informs us that the Data Protection Act 1998 is not operational until later on this year. Further we will benefit from the transitional provision in the Act until October 2001, with the result that the relevant sections will not apply until that date. During this three-year period we intend to dispose of various files including any that might relate to you and your wife. For the ovidence of doubt we do not have any data concerning you pursuant to the earlier Data Protection Act 1984. If you wish clarification of the issues raised we suggest you seek independent professional advice. Your Sincerely Watchtower Bible and Tract Society As stated above, again they have records . . . from 1984. at least 10 years of them! Below is the new data protection Act for 1998/9 Click here to print out the "Data Protection Act" below. 7.1.7.6. Forthcoming legislation page 14b reissued January 1999 Data Protection Act 1998 Extent: England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland Royal Assent 16.7.98 46c This Act implements European Directive 95/45/EC on the protection of individuals with regard to the processing of personal data, and extends the scope of the protection Act 1984 46f The Act only applies to personal data related to living individuals and will include some manual records and filing systems which were previously excluded from regulation. Processing will include both use and the disclosure of data, with disclosure meaning any method of making the data available. 46g The definition of "data user" is replaced by "data controller". All data controllers will have to notify the data protection commissioner (currently known as the register) of basic details about the personal information they hold about a "data subject". The requirements for registration are retained, but with modifications. For example the registration system will not apply to personal data held only on manual filing systems. All data controllers, however, will have to comply with the data protection rules, whether they are registered or not. Date it should come into force: early1999 46h Personal data will have to be obtained from authorised sources, or from the data subjects themselves. In both situations, the data subject will have to be notified of the identity of the data controller, the purpose of processing and any other information necessary to enable the processing to be fair. The data subject will have the right to prevent processing which is likely to cause damage or distress, unless for example, s/he has already given her/his consent. The Act will also give data subjects a greater ability to bring court proceedings where data controllers breach their statutory duties. Date it should come into force: early1999 46i Special rules will apply to the processing of sensitive personal data, for example racial or ethnic origin, political, religious beliefs, trade union membership, health, offences and convictions. The Act also tries to ensure that personal data transferred to non - EEA countries will be adequately protected. Date it should come into force: early1999
-
Continuation.. A request to remove your name & records from JWs-
by FreeofGuilt inthanks so much for all of the good legal advice!
i have been digging & found the following : the following is what i found on www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/jv/unit5a.htm regarding a person requesting that the elders remove his/her name/records "if a baptized person insists that he does not want to be part of the congregation and requests that his name be removed from all our records, we should comply with his request.
since he takes such an adamant position, encourage him to put his request in writing.
-
FreeofGuilt
Thanks so much for all of the good legal advice! I have been digging & found the following : The following is what I found on www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/jv/unit5a.htm regarding a person requesting that the elders remove his/her name/records "If a baptized person insists that he does not want to be part of the congregation and requests that his name be removed from all our records, we should comply with his request. Since he takes such an adamant position, encourage him to put his request in writing. If he refuses to do this but states resolutely before witnesses his decision to disassociate himself and not be known as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, the witnesses to his statement would be asked to put this in writing and sign it." This info was taken from the elders secret book"Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" see www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/jv/unit5a.htmBUT, DOESN'T THE HEADQUARTERS HAVE A COPY ON FORM( S-77 and S-79 forms ) ACCORDING TO THE ABOVE WEBSITE? I will have to keep researching this.....
-
19
Those "secret files" the elders kept on each & every one of us?
by FreeofGuilt ini have been out of the cult jw religion for 3 yrs now, but i need some help/suggestions, please.
i am not disfellowshipped, but i simply became "inactive" after i left home & got married... i was "publicly reproved" once, & was wondering about those "secret files" they have kept on me.
if you have ever been in the "back room" then you know what i am talking about.
-
-
FreeofGuilt
Thanks for all of your wise comments. Especially the fire one! (HA) Yeah, the links that jgnat provided were interesting, & I really don't think they destroyed the records. I was at the Kingdom Hall once when I was a Pioneer by myself (I had a key), & I tried out of curiosity to open the filing cabinet in the 2nd ministerial school/library, & it was locked. I then concluded that that is where the files were kept. I often have BAD ideas about catching the place on fire, but then the consequences are too great. (Bad idea). Anyway, I also wondered if they make a copy & send them to the Headquarters. Is anyone out there an ex-Elder that can give some insight? Maybe that is why the P.O. in that case ( jgnat above presented) could say that they destroyed them because they had a second copy @ the Headquarters.... I wonder how many people would be willing to get together & sue. How, or where would you begin to lodge a complaint against JW's on this matter in the USA ? I know it 's not the BBB, right? Someone else said that the files would sit & collect dust, but would they really? I guess before anyone makes the attempt to ask for their records, it would be better to disassociate yourself, because after you ask to destroy the records they will disfellowship you anyway. It is a lot of trouble, but think about how much trouble they have caused all of us...
-
117
Polytheism - Jehovah has same status as other gods
by Sirona inwho here is polytheistic?
is jehovah just another god?
is he on a par with osiris / pan / cernunnos / whoever?.
-
-
FreeofGuilt
Excuse me for my comments...Hillary, can I ask if you are a secret apostate? Why are you here if the JW's would oppose it? Why do you feel the urge to criticize others for their opinions? You are just the BITCH who straddles the fence-- oops forgive me if my spelling offends you..