Posts by 24k

33

What does the Society have against jeans?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

rarely will you find a picture of someone in the awake or watchtower wearing jeans.

even in there so-called paradise on earth illustrations, men can be doing dirty work in the farm, and be wearing slacks.. for example, in the november 15th wt entitled, "do you want to live forever?

", page 7 has another paradise illustration, which has to be one of the most socially-engineered pictures i have ever seen.. the caption, "love for god and neighbor will make living forever worthwhile".

24k

It's simply an indication of the lengths to which a controling, cultish, religious authority will go to control the actions, emotions, and thinking of others. When pressed regarding issues such as wearing jeans, members will often say it's only a small thing, why make waves. This is a giving over of ones reasoning ability to the authority of the leadership. While wearing or not wearing jeans may be no big deal, why is it so improtant to the leadership?

This type of control is practiced in almost every aspect of member's lives: Beards, extra curricular activities such sports or proms, the type of sex engaged in by married couples, the type of music and movies one listens to or watches, dress and groming as above mentioned... oh, and don't forget the use of pinatas, whether it's appropriate to tip your hat to a lady, etc.

Romans 14: 3,4 "The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condenm the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone elses servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

17

Living in a divided home

by 24k in

jw
friends

let me start off by saying that i love my wife dearly.

she is, and has always been my best friend.

she is a devoted wife and a wonderful mother.

24k

Let me start off by saying that I love my wife dearly. She is, and has always been my best friend. She is a devoted wife and a wonderful mother. I could not have asked for more. When we met, I was a faithful watchtower adherent and a ministerial servant. After we were married, I became an elder and we pioneered for several years together. However, a few years ago, I began to have serious reservations about my faith and the teachings of the wbts. I started to do some independant research and bible study, and came to feel that I did not have "the truth". Of course, my change in thinking was very difficult for my wife to understand. In fact, after a few tenative discussions, she refused to talk about it any further, and absolutely would not read any of the books or material I had used in my research, calling it apostasy. My religious views and thinking were now viewed with suspision. On one occasion, after praying that her and I could reach some sort of compromise together in spiritual matters, she refused to say amen to the prayer, viewing any compromise as sinful.

All of this has, of course, been very hard to deal with. The complete lack of respect for my feelings and beliefs is astonishing to me. There is no thought given to the idea that I might be right and that these things might be worth at least investigating. I am simply an opposer who should keep his mouth shut. That sentiment is shared by both our families as well.

The problem with trying to keep ones mouth shut, however, leads to its own set of difficulties. As you all know, the wbts's teachings touch every aspect of it's adherents lives. And so, trying to maintain a low profile is difficult while at the same time trying to adhere to one's own convictions. Things like the holidays, birthdays, extra curricular activities for your children, association with wordly friends, etc, all become sources of contention, not to mention salvaging a sense of spirituality together.

So I guess my question is, how have all of you, who are living in divided marriages, dealt with the challenges? Have you been able to find compromises that seem to work? Are your mates willing to associate with your worldly friends and family?

Sorry for the long winded post... 24k

19

Feeling Frustrated

by 24k in

jw
friends

have you had this experience when talking with friends and family members who are still in?

you:well the society looked down on attending college when i was getting out of high school.

them:they never said you couldn't attend college.

24k

The other day my brother in law actually tried to argue with me that the wbts never taught that the generation of 1914 would not pass away before the end came. He said he got this info from a 1960's watchtower. I was stunned! I served for years with this man as an elder. After I copied the chapter on 1914 from the live forever book and showed him the words in black and white, his response was, "I'll have to check that 60's tower and get back to you." Again stunned!!

The level of denial is astonishing, and I think it evolves from the inability of the society to admit it's errors. By that, I don't mean a tacit admission of over zealous expectations, but a real live humble apology for having taught something that did not come from God as though it did.

Ranting again... 24k

19

Feeling Frustrated

by 24k in

jw
friends

have you had this experience when talking with friends and family members who are still in?

you:well the society looked down on attending college when i was getting out of high school.

them:they never said you couldn't attend college.

24k

Have you had this experience when talking with friends and family members who are still in? It goes something like this:

YOU:Well the society looked down on attending college when I was getting out of high school.

THEM:They never said you couldn't attend college.

YOU:Maybe not specifically, but they certainly painted those that did as spiritually weak and discouraged young people from pursuing higher education beyond highschool.

THEM:I don't remember that. I never read anything about higher education. It was always left up to your conscience.

YOU:You don't remember that no one you know sent their kid's to college.

THEM:That was their choice, the society wasn't to blame for their own personal decisions.

YOU:Let me get this straight, your saying that the society exercises no influence over it's members. The articles that they printed regarding the unwise nature of pursuing higher eductaion, had no bearing on parents decisions to send their children to school? Not to mention the constant harping on the idea that we're living at the end and so don't want to waste time in wordly pursuits. None of this effected anyones decisions?!

THEM:I'd have to re-read the articles your refering to myself.

YOU:AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH! (running out of the room, hair on fire)

The above experience illustrates one of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with those friends and family members who are still in the organization; intellectual dishonesty. They seem incapable of acknowleding even the most basic truths about the society's teachings when they percieve that doing so may paint the organization in an unfavorable light.

From the "generation of 1914" teaching, to the arbitrary rulings on the blood issue, no witness seems to be able to admit error or at least inconsistancy. How can you reach someone who can't even be honest about the beliefs of their own religion.

Sorry, just had to vent.

6

How Many 1st Century Christians?

by 24k in

just wondering if anyone has done any research regarding the estimated number of christians around during the 1st and 2nd centuries.

it seems that there would have been well over 144,000. if so, there certainly would not have been any remaining spots to fill during the 20th century.

of course, the bible doesn't seem to set a number limit on those going to heaven.

24k

Just wondering if anyone has done any research regarding the estimated number of Christians around during the 1st and 2nd centuries. It seems that there would have been well over 144,000. If so, there certainly would not have been any remaining spots to fill during the 20th century. Of course, the bible doesn't seem to set a number limit on those going to heaven. Just curious for your thoughts.

18

Need some Input!

by Sunnygal41 in

jw
friends

i'm going thru an incredible range of emotions since conversing with my fleshly sister yesterday.

i've posted a few times here, but, haven't yet gained enough "notoriety"

terri

24k

I often wonder how they miss Jesus words at Matthew 9:13 "Go, then, and learn what this means, 'I want mercy, and not sacrifice.'"

11

Ohio JW to share intrfaith dialog

by Nathan Natas in

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/local/7213943.htm

a news byte from the beacon journal (local & state news).

<...> about 4/5 down the page.

24k

I had the opportunity to attend Monday nights forum on the question, "Who is Jesus?". The hosting college provided a moderator and there were three speakers; Mormon professor of theology, local congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses Elder, and a Methodist minister. Each speaker had a 20 minute intro as well as a 5 minute conclusion with about an hour of question and answer in between.

The local Elder went first and discussed the history of the organization, persecution of witnesses in Nazi Germany, medical issues, and supreme court victories. Of the 20 minutes provided, 2 or 3 were spent discussing wbts theology on the person of Jesus. The entire presentation seemed to be geared to say, "Hey, we're not some weird cult. We're just like everyone else, and by the way we've got a great organization that's done some pretty amazing stuff." Not quite what one is looking for during such a discussion. I've noticed though that the organization seems to have a pretty tough time discussing Jesus at all.

The Mormon professor was pretty articulate and straight forward, but the Methodist minister seemed only concerned with refuting anti-trinatarian arguments.

The question and answer portion of the evening was pretty benign. The moderator read the questions from yellow flash cards that had been filled out by the audience during a ten minute recess. He seemed to weed out anything to inflamatory.

Conclusions were good, accept the Methodist minister had some bizarre matrix skit played on a movie screen for his conclusion that was very strange to say the least.

The oddist part of the evening for me was the number of J dubbs present at the event. I went with a friend of mine and didn't expect to see any one I knew. I wasn't aware that the organisation participated in these types of events.

16

JW doctrine..

by Brummie in

i cant think of any of their doctrines that could be supported if they didnt deliberately alter the scriptures.

even their teaching of god creating the earth is flawed when one considers what they believe about god.. of the top of my head i cant think of anything that i still believe that was taught me by the watchtower...can you?.

brummie

24k

Hell fire! I can't bring myself to accept such a repugnant doctrine. The idea of God keeping someone alive for all eternity just to torture them is so cruel as to be incompatable with the example of Christ. Although, I must admit that certain bible verses do seem to teach just such a doctrine.

Love your thought provoking posts Brummie. Keep the questions coming.

24k

6

144,000 ?

by 24k in

while in the midst of a discussion with my wife, who is a devout witness, regarding who go to heaven, it dawned on me that the wbts teaching that only 144,000 go to heaven seems to have a fatal flaw in the math.

according to acts 2:41 "... about three thousand souls were added to their number that day.

" speaking of christians.

24k

While in the midst of a discussion with my wife, who is a devout witness, regarding who go to heaven, it dawned on me that the wbts teaching that only 144,000 go to heaven seems to have a fatal flaw in the math. According to Acts 2:41 "... about three thousand souls were added to their number that day." speaking of christians. Acts 4:4 "But many who heard the message believed, and the number of men grew to about five thousand." not including women. Acts 6:7 "So the word of God spread. The number of disciples increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith." All through Acts, the congregations are growing by leaps and bounds. If three thousands believers are added in a single day, and all of these are annointed christians, it doesn't seem like it would take too long to reach the number 144,000. It would certainly seem reasonable that the number would be reached within a decade or two. If that was the case, and only 144,000 go to heaven, then no one in the twentieth century would be eligible to go.

Has anyone come across any estimates of the number of christians around during the first century. The wtbs would obviously argue that christians brought in after the end of the first century would be part of the great apostasy and so wouldn't count.

Just a thought... 24k

11

What questions would you ask a LOYAL JW, when/if you get a chance ???

by run dont walk in

jw
friends

.

well, my family has started to call me out of the blue, (after years of no contact).. so, get your thinking caps on.. what questions are the best to throw at loyal jw's, to show they are wrong, or at least get them thinking ????

?

24k

You may not need to ask them anything. If they're coming around, it may indicate a desire on their part to see what's really out there. Your being a happy satisfied person apart from the wbts may be witness enough to the fallacy that all who are not a part of the organization are unhappy, selfish, and godless people. Let them ask the questions, and it might surprise you.

My two cents