From what I've read about the typical cult experience, fears about leaving a group are quite irrational and filled with images like becoming miserable, going insane, becoming a drug addict, getting cancer, getting hit by a falling piano, etc. From what it sounds like, the typical JW is at least conditioned to believe that misery is awaiting them outside of Jehovah's Organization. You guys are dispelling this myth and causing your relatives some real dissonance by being so darned happy. Keep up the good work.
Posts by M.J.
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25Do Your Witness Relatives Want You To Be Happy?
by Englishman inor do they want the world to fall in around your ears so that you might "turn back to jehovah"?.
do they think that if you had less happiness in life you would be driven back?.
my mum once exclaimed very bitterly that i had "landed on my feet" too many times and that i would probably have been back at the kh if things hadn't gone so well in my life.. englishman.
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Comments You Will Not Hear at the 6-6-04 WT Study (5-1-04)
by blondie inindeed, in his name nations will hope.
paragraphs 10-12.
paragraphs 16-17.
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M.J.
How can the WT write this and in the same breath expect their members to be following the leadings of the FDS?
This is because the FDS is spirit directed--most of its current direction can be traced back to J. Rutherford, and J Rutherford largely took direction from distilled spirits.
It's interesting they need to focus on how much "the world hates them".
Common mind control cult tactics: Us vs. Them, Good vs. Evil, inside vs. outside. Name any desctructive cult and you'll most likely find the same sentiment. I don't think the Branch Davidians felt very warm and fuzzy with the outside world either.
Thanks, Blondie for this awesome service you provide. As a WTS "outsider" this provides me great awareness of the "food" that my loved one is fed weekly. With that comes a great feeling of empowerment and less helplessness.
Oh, by the way, I was rather surprised to see how watching "violent sports" is taboo. Do they really look down on watching football? Or are we talking just boxing and pro-wrestling (if you can call that a sport)?
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Birthdays..... Now A Conscience Matter
by Latte infrom our readers (awake!
july 8 2004)
pinatas i read with interest the article ?the pinata - an ancient tradition?
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M.J.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Worldwide Church of God prohibited holidays and birthdays, that is while their "inspired" leader and "prophet", Herbert W. Armstrong was still running things. Does anyone know their purported reasoning for the ban on birthdays? I wonder if they borrowed their reasoning from the WTS, since it would take quite a leap to come up with that one purely and independently from scripture. Or perhaps Herbert Armstrong had a little spirit direction himself...
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Birthdays..... Now A Conscience Matter
by Latte infrom our readers (awake!
july 8 2004)
pinatas i read with interest the article ?the pinata - an ancient tradition?
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M.J.
A common cult manipulative technique is the use of the linguistic "double bind", which has the effect of forcing a person to do what the controller wants while giving an illusion of choice. I think we got ourselves an example of this here:
Statement 1 : Christians refrain from any celebrations or customs that continue to involve false religious beliefs or activities that violate Bible principles.
Damned if you do.
Statement 2: if it is very obvious that a custom has no current false religious significance and involves no violation of Bible principles, each Christian must make a personal decision as to whether he will follow such a custom.
Here's the illusion of a choice. The WTS still holds all the cards to interpret what carries "current false religious significance" and what does not, so in reality, there is no personal choice involved.
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What's up with JWs only loving each other?
by new light inhow can it be called love when it is contingent on religious fervor?
i saw first hand today how some dubs only respect those of the faith, while dismissing others as scum.
their ridiculous, unnecessary preaching work is their only claim to being christ's followers.
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M.J.
He told me what he had to do was emotionally separate himself from his "worldy family" so he wouldn't feel so bad when they died at Armegedon (obviously advising me to do the same).
This is all great info. I can't believe that this type of counsel is given. Being a "worldly family" member I know that my JW wife probably takes this kind of talk with a grain of salt, which I think is a very encouraging sign. We have a great family life (beyond the touchy subjects). She totally respects and enjoys the company of several of our "worldly" acquaintences and I wonder if she would catch flak for this from the cong. unbeknownst to me... -
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Questions regarding the Cross/Torture stake
by truthseeker1 inthis was brought up by my journey and they requested information regarding it.
this is a quote from the page below regarding how the wt takes other's words out of context to fit their own agenda.
quote..........misquote:.
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M.J.
Some quick ADDITIONAL points:
- Archaeology has firmly established that a cross with a cross-piece was used for crucifixion in the first century AD. (see this article and this article)
- Archealogical digs have produced 1 st century cross symbols associated with Christians. For instance, digs in Herculaneum, the sister city of Pompeii (destroyed in 78 A.D. by volcano) produced a house where a wooden cross had been nailed to the wall of a room.
- John 20:25: "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the NAILS, and put my finger into the print of the NAILS, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." (caps mine, not John's )
- Published in 1989, medical research conducted by Frederick T. Zugibe, a professor of pathology at Columbia University concluded that:
- An impaled man with arms stretched straight over his head (as Jesus is depicted in WT publications) would suffocate in 6 minutes, due to the inability of the lungs to expand and contract in such a position (confirming what was concluded by previous researchers).
- A man with hands outstretched at an angle of 60 o -70 o (as in a cross) could live for hours without suffocating.
- The account of the Gospels shows Jesus could not have died of asphyxiation, but rather from shock and trauma, due to a combination of exhaustion, pain, and loss of blood.
- Luke 23:44 and Matthew 27:45,46 show that Christ was alive on the cross for about 3 hours.
- The Apostle Paul boasted of the cross of Christ. In Galatians 6:14 he says:"But may it never be that I would boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ."
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Do You Think Your Family & Friends Will Ever Get Out Of The Religion??
by minimus incan you imagine certain ones making it out of the religion, somehow, sometime?
?
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M.J.
I'm daunted by the fact that a certain loved one put their life on the line by refusing a transfusion and physically suffered greatly for it. From what I have read, the greater the "investment" or personal sacrifices, the greater the emotional bond is to the group/cause.
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How Does It Feel Knowing That You Were Once A Member Of A Cult???
by minimus indoes it bother you?
the more i think about it---the angrier i get.
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M.J.
Another quote from Combatting Mind Control:[paraphrased]
It is essential that former members acknowledge and work through their pain, and go through the necessary grieving period. What seems to help the most is to enable people to realize that positive things did come out of their involvement, and to show them how they can now be much stronger because of the experience, putting it in a manageable and hopeful perspective...
Floating may be described as an experience in which the member floats back in time to the days of his group involvement, and starts to think from within his former identity. Is often triggered when a former member sees, hears, or feels some external or internal stimulus which was part of the conditioning process, briefly jolting them into the cult mindset. Floating can cause a former member who is depressed, lonely, and confused to go back into the cult. Suddenly you can pop back into the cult mindset, and be hit with a tremendous rush of fear and guilt that you have betrayed the group and its leader. You can lose rational control and begin to think magically. By this I mean that one can interpret recent world and personal events from the cult perspective. For example, you didn?t get that job "because God wants you to go back to the group,"...If an ex-member starts to float, he should simply but firmly remind himself that the experience was just triggered by some stimulus, that it will pass, and find someone who understands cult mind control with whom he can talk it out rationally. The most powerful technique is to identify the trigger. Once you find it, you can mentally associate it with something else.
(not that I know anything about this personally, but like Triple A I'm really grateful to hear your stories and perspectives. They are really helpful for me in identifying with loved ones)
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Apostates are very disappointing. I just found the WTS is true about them.
by reason inyour conduct, attitude, manner of speech, avatar, all of these shows what sort of hearts you people have.
i can't feel the holy spirit operating in you people.
the first time i exposed myself to apostates, i was imagining matured people, more matured than the jw's.
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M.J.
The only way to make someone like this go away is to ignore them!!!
I don't think the goal is to make folks like this go away just because they may post critical and judgemental remarks. Just take a look at the logo for this site. It says, "...everyone welcome!" The way I see it, it's a positive sign when anyone, unlike the majority of dubs out there, takes the initiative to actually look at what "the other side" has to say. By firing back at Mr. Bean here, rather than being more understanding of his mindset, I think we're doing him a disservice. That said, I know that you ex-JDubs have a lot of frustration to vent, so I see how these guys can really set some of you off...
But be assured, Reason, I myself have NO love for the Watchtower Society and yet I also cringe at the occasional "sacriligious" postings/images in this forum. But like it's been said, everyone is free to express their own personal viewpoint. We're free to accept or reject information/ideas based on their own merits, not because they are fed to us. You will find some extremely insightful threads with posts from incredibly knowledgeable and respectable folks on this board if you take the time to look.
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New Wave JW's . . . I sort of got a chuckle out of this one.
by Corvin inthe apostates over at e-watchman's forum are dillusional .
first class spiritual nutjobs, if you will.
we know they do not consider themselves to be apostate, but they believe they will do the most good by staying in the organization so that when the foundations of the society are shaken, and they believe it will happen soon, they will be there to aid and comfort the jw's who don't know what to do or where to go.
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M.J.
These New Wave dudes are probablly not much different than these guys:
http://www.food4jws.org/faq/prjw.htm
Same thing, different day.After Pastor Russell's death, The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society began to rise as a hierarchy over the once independent congregations. Many refused to surrender their Christian liberty and here started the work of separation. As early as 1917 this exodus from the Society began, and those who appreciated the wonderful harmony of the Bible as taught by Pastor Russell are today known as "Associated Bible Students."
The following doctrines are an example as to how Bible Students still retain the basic teachings of Pastor Russell in contrast with "Jehovah's Witnesses," who do not. ...