Posts by Magnum

94

just what am I supposed to believe now??

by purrpurr in

while i'm glad i found this site, it has also crumbled to bits everything i've believed in my whole life.

i feel like the certainty, magic and wonder has gone out of my life.

this has left a huge hole in my soul.

Magnum

purrpurr, Dis-Member, millie210, James Jackson, DesirousOfChange - I agree with your posts and feel as you do.

purrpurr: I feel like the certainty, magic and wonder has gone out of my life. This has left a huge hole in my soul. Just what do I believe in now? Is there a god?

I’m struggling with that, too. I miss the certainty of thinking I was soon going to see excting developments on the world scene indicating that paradise was immediately ahead. I was looking forward to having forever to do all the things I want to do now but have neither the time nor money to do. I was looking forward to physical perfection. I certainly have vast interests and see magic and wonder in the world, but I want to enjoy it forever; a few years are not enough for me. Besides, there is a lot of horrible suffering going on in the world among humans and animals. I am desperate for that to end. I will never be able to fully enjoy this life we have now knowing some of my fellow creatures are suffering.

I see strong evidence that something is badly wrong in JWdom. I remember the days when I hated for a district convention to end. I would stay in the upper levels of the faciltiy and watch all the brothers dismantling the stage, taking away chairs on the floor, etc. and feel depressed knowing it was over. I hated leaving that comforting, secure-feeling atmosphere. But those days are over.

Now I’m struggling to determine whether there is a god, and if so, whether the Bible is his communication to man. If the Bible is not his communication, then is there some form of communication, and if so, what is it?

millie210:

Merely taking care of myself is not going to satisfy me long term because I am a very big picture person.

Just volunteering isnt going to cut it either (at least long term) because I have been volunteering for years and most of that is a "feel good" hit and as temporary and corrupt in its power structure as JWs or other organized groups.

I am trying to break it down in to 2 questions at the moment.

1) is there a God whose creative touch I see around me?

2) Does he have a people, or are they scattered around the earth and not organized in any form of group?

Those words could have been mine.

I maintain hope. If there is a god, maybe, for some reason, he’s observing our searching and questioning. Maybe that itself is the real sign of goodness in his eyes. Maybe we will get answers. The last few years I have prayed intensely for answers. I said things like “Please show me what’s right. Show me what’s wrong. Show me whether JWs are your people.” I literally went into the woods late at night and did this just so I could feel closer to him (if he existed). I never got any direct answers, however, I did begin to see much more clearly the wrongs in JWdom. Maybe that was an answer to my prayers. I don’t know. Maybe it’s a slow process. Maybe as I’ve already said the search and journey themselves are what he’s looking for.

My next step is to read, study, and learn. Contrary to what JWs say and believe, they are kept ignorant. We, as JWs, were kept ignorant. We were kept so distracted with shallow, empty, busy work, that we never really got to learn. For example, many (if not most) JWs don’t even realize that Bible canonicity is even an issue. They never even question who chose the 66 books making up the Bible they use. They don’t think that deeply. They’re not allowed to and are not given time to.

I want to read books on theology, Bblical history & archaelogy, how the books of the Bible were chosen (and why some potential ones weren’t), history and psychology of religion, etc. I will continue my seeking. A non-JW friend recently told me to quit seeking answers and just enjoy life, but I can’t do that. Even if I were content with my own life, I’m too concerned about suffering in the world. I need answers.

I wonder and question and think deeply every day of my life. I’ve studied biology, chemistry, and physics, so I’m familiar with the basic sciences. I’m not some naïve person (like my mother) who just automatically attributes things he/she can’t understand to God, yet I do wonder when I think of, for example, the human brain and its ability to understand (and maybe even invent) complex mathematics and make beautiful music (and describe and understand the math behind it) and write great literature and feel compassion and control the body of a ballet dancer. I’m awed by it and I can’t help but wonder whether there is some design involved.

My advice to you is to keep an open mind – one that is completely open, yet with a good dose of healthy skepticism. Do not give up on your seeking. Maybe if we continue to seek, we will find.

11

Old friend and new CO come calling.

by Wasanelder Once in

an old friend brought the co by the house today.

i answered the door before i knew who it was.

it was low key and not a lot of pressure.

Magnum

James Jackson - I knew Rundquist. His wife was a big-mouth. She was way too young to be a CO's wife. She was a young punk who was way out of line. I remember her saying things like "the brothers need to..." like she had some kind of authority.

22

Scriptures that now seem to apply to JWs

by Magnum in

in the last year or so, many bible passages that i used to strongly and confidently apply to non-jws, began to seem to apply to jws.

this change in my thinking was shocking and disturbing.

i can best describe the feeling by comparing it to the feeling i got in 1981 when i watched the movie dead and buried starring james farentino.. in that movie there are murders committed in a small town by dead people reanimated by a doctor doing experiments.

Magnum

OK, some more good ones: Mt 23:15, Pr 6:16-19, & Lu 21:7.

I've been thinking about Lu 21:7 a lot lately. "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them."

NO ONE claims "the time (END) is near" as do JWs.

How did we miss it?

Gosh, how did we miss it? It was slapping us in the face!

22

Scriptures that now seem to apply to JWs

by Magnum in

in the last year or so, many bible passages that i used to strongly and confidently apply to non-jws, began to seem to apply to jws.

this change in my thinking was shocking and disturbing.

i can best describe the feeling by comparing it to the feeling i got in 1981 when i watched the movie dead and buried starring james farentino.. in that movie there are murders committed in a small town by dead people reanimated by a doctor doing experiments.

Magnum

In the last year or so, many Bible passages that I used to strongly and confidently apply to non-JWs, began to seem to apply to JWs. This change in my thinking was shocking and disturbing. I can best describe the feeling by comparing it to the feeling I got in 1981 when I watched the movie Dead and Buried starring James Farentino.

In that movie there are murders committed in a small town by dead people reanimated by a doctor doing experiments. The living dead appear as normal people. James Farentino plays the sheriff in the small town. He’s a good guy who’s sincerely trying to figure out what’s going on. To make a long story short, in the end he finds out that he, too, is one of the living dead. He's shocked. I remember the feeling I had at the moment the movie began to drop hints that the sheriff was one of the living dead. It was a sobering, shocking feeling of dread.

So that’s how I felt when it first began to dawn on me that the passages I had to applied non-JWs for many years seemed to begin to apply to JWs. I felt like that sheriff must have felt. All along he thought he was a normal good-guy sheriff trying to figure out what was wrong with everybody else. Then he began to see, shockingly, that he was one of the "them". I began to think, shockingly, that maybe these Bible passages that I had applied to others applied to the group I was in.

I have a list somewhere of a lot of such passages, but I can’t find it right now. Listed below are the ones that come to mind right now.

passages that now seem to apply to JWs:

Joh 8:32 - and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free [When I was really starting to have doubts about the JW religion, I started praying fervently to God to help me see the truth, whatever it might be. I don’t know whether it was answered prayer because I don’t even know whether God exists, but during this time I began to really see more clearly the wrongs in JWdom and I began to feel that the setting free was from JWdom.]

Re 18:4 - And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. [I began to feel that maybe this applies to leaving JWdom]

Mt 7:21-23 - 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness. [How appropriately this could apply to JWs. They constantly point to and brag about their “powerful works”. I used to fervently apply this passage to so-called Christendom and its members, but I began to think, OMG, this applies to JWs. I can imagine their shock at finding out they’re not approved and their saying “but didn’t we go out in service many hours per month and go to all the meetings and support the FDS and read all the mags and promote our website…]

1Co 10:12 - Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. [JWs smugly, self-righteously, and over-confidently think they are standing. I think they are due for a fall.]

Mt 15:14 - LET them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit. [JW leadership leading their drones]

Jer 5:21 - Hear, now, this, O unwise people that is without heart: They have eyes, but they cannot see; they have ears, but they cannot hear. [JWs are deaf and blind to logic, fact, and reason. My wife recently tried to reason with my JW mother and said to me “You’re right. It’s impossible to reason with them.”]

Ps 146:3 - Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs [JWs put complete trust in their nobles – the GB, COs, etc.]

Please add any passages you can think of to the list.

Has anybody else experienced this? Have you found that some parts of the Bible that you used to apply to non-JWs now seem to apply to JWs? I already know that a lot of you don't believe the Bible is inspired and I'm still trying to determine whether it is, so for the sake of this discussion, just please assume it is inspired.

97

First post

by thedog1 in

jw
friends

this is a very strange thing for me to do.

i have been an active witness for over 25 years.

i currently serve as an elder and i conduct the watchtower study.

Magnum

thedog1: As others have said, as time goes on you start reading the publications from a different angle

That certainly happened with me, and not only that, but I started reading the Bible from a different angle, too. Passages that used to seem to apply to non-JWs or other religions started seeming to apply to JWs. Example: "And you will know the truth, adn the truth will set you free" - John 8:32.

35

Do You Think That Animals Truly Understand Human Language?

by minimus in

jw
friends

they say horses communicate with their ears.

mr. ed talked, though.

pet owners, do you think that your cat or dog or goldfish really understands you?.

Magnum

Mikado, the raccoon story still moves me. There were three of them. They would sleep in the bed with us. I have pictures and video of the male in the bed with his head on a pillow snuggled up with me or wife. One night when we were keeping them outside, he broke out of his enclosure, then broke into the house, and then climbed in bed with us and slept all night between us.

I stll to this day (been about seven years) cry over the loss of the boy. He had an undiagnosed sickness. We took him to three different out-of-state vets and consulted online with another. He finally died at one of the vets' offices out of town. It almost killed me. That trip home with his dead body was something I never want to experience again. The vet wrapped him in paper and put a plastic flower on the package and brought him out to the car. I put him on the back seat and we drove home (about three hours). I cried for days.

63

why did they have to butcher the kingdom melodies?

by purrpurr in

its not like there was anything wrong with them was there?

i used to love the old ones.

these new ones feel like the equivalent of a deflated balloon.. does anyone have the answer?.

Magnum

purrpurr:

Wow reading these posts just wow! These are songs that I grew up with and loved! They'd moved me to tears and when sung by a assembly hall full of jw's I used to think I felt the holy spirit amongst us!

And now that illusion is all crumbling...

I know what you mean. It did seem so wholesome and warm and loving when a large group sang those songs. In fact, some of the older, pretty ones still move me to tears as they make me long for the time when it seemed so real... when I thought paradise was near... when I felt so safe and comfortable.

But, now, it's all crumbling to me, too. Sad.

42

God listens and RESPONDS to your prayer if you know how to log on to Him! Here is the proof.

by exWTslave in

all my family members and friends (that include some elders) advised me to divorce my wife whose only joy was to pick up fight with me for everything i do, except my grand-mother who said: when you married her, you looked for only her good pointher regular pioneering despite having an opposing family.

for being good, you will ultimately reap something far better through her.

stick on to her.

Magnum

From my experience I understand what Jesus said in Mathew 6:6 (“when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door”) as going into our own INNER self and shutting the door so that no other thoughts come between you and your Father, and in this extremely PRIVATE setting, whatever your ask “Father will grant you.””

You're making a point with Mt 6:6 that the context doesn't support. The context shows that Jesus was simply instructing his followers to not pray out in public just to be seen by men - for show. He wasn't referring to being in private so one could clear thoughts, meditate, etc.

Mt 6:5,6 - 5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Secondly, I've tried what you refer to for years and never received so much as a peep for an answer. In my work travels, I have pulled over late at night, walked out alone into open fields under starry skies and implored God to hear me and answer me - not asking for selfish things, but telling him I would do what he wanted if he would make what he wanted clear to me. After years, still no answer, unless his answer is to show me that JWs are wrong.

Thirdly, I agree with what some others have said about the proper "log on" procedure. Is an almighty, all-loving God so petty that he won't answer if one doesn't use the precise "log on" protocol? The Bible doesn't support what you say; it has accounts of people praying under all kinds of different circumstances.

35

Do You Think That Animals Truly Understand Human Language?

by minimus in

jw
friends

they say horses communicate with their ears.

mr. ed talked, though.

pet owners, do you think that your cat or dog or goldfish really understands you?.

Magnum

Something happened to me a few years ago concerning animal intellgence, understanding, and emotion that still has me astonished. I have vast experience with animals and was aware that they have more intelligence and feelings than most people give them credit for, but I would not have believed this had I not experienced it myself.

My wife and I had raised some orphaned raccoons. We built them a nice facility and were planning on keeping them. However, one of the females went into heat before we could have her spayed, and she escaped. We didn't see her for months. Then one day at about 10:00am my wife and I were both out in our yard. Bandit (not her real name) came into the yard out of a large overgrown field on the edge of our yard. The way she walked around the yard just seemed odd; also, it was odd for her to be out that time of day.

My wife finally said "she wants something." So I kneeled down, held out my and said "Bandit, what do you want"? This is the part that, to me, is unbelievable. She walked up to me, gently took my hand in her mouth, and tugged toward the field. I looked at my wife and said "she wants me to go with her." My wife agreed. For any of you who remember the old Lassie TV show, it was just like when Lassie would tug on Timmie and want Timmie to follow her.

I started following her through the field. The grass was up to my chest. I could only tell where she was by watching the tall grass move. I lost her several times and said "Bandit, I can't see you. Where are you?" I swear she would be about twenty feet ahead and turn around and come to my feet so I could see her and then proceed again to lead me. Now I don't believe she understood my words, but I think she knew the concept; she knew I couldn't find her and she came back to get me.

We finally made it to the other side of the field (about the length of an American football field) into the woods on the other side of the field. For two hours, I followed her around the woods as she searched every hole in the ground, climbed trees and searched in them, searched in holes in fallen trees, etc. I could only figure that she had babies and something happened to them. It broke my heart to not be able to help her - especially since she came to us for help. Finally, I just lay (yes, "lay" is the correct word) on the forest floor for about 45 minutes and she lay there with me. After that, I put her on my shoulder and I walked across the field back to our house.

Some months later she came back home, went into our attic and down into a wall and had babies in the wall space. We could hear the babies in the wall. One morning at 5:30, we heard a horrible growling, fighting sound in the wall, so I jumped out of bed and beat on the wall and ran outside. I saw a grown raccoon climb down the side of our house and run off into the woods. I ran and got a saw and cut the wall open and found Bandit's babies all mauled to death (I took pictures of them). Bandit was frantic. She stood on the rail of our deck and put her paws on my chest and looked at me as if pleading with me to help. It was horrible. There was nothing I could do. That whole day she wandered around with a look in her eyes that I never want to again in the eyes of any living being.

After that incident, we were certain about what happened on the occasion when she led me across the field; something took her babies and she came to us for help. Fortunately, my wife witnessed both incidents; otherwise, I would refrain from relating the accounts - especially the first one because it seems unbelievable. To me, it shows a high level of intelligence. How did she know to come to us for help? How did she know to pull on my hand and lead me across the field? I still don't understand it.

Those raccoons turned out to be far smarter and to have more feeling than I would have originally thought. They are all gone now. I have hundreds of photos and hours of video of them. They were a wonderful pleasure - very smart, playful, and affectionate.

41

The "Preaching" Work As A Dead Parrot

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dead_parrot_sketch.

inspired by a car salesman.

as with john cleese's apoplectic performance, there is never any admission that the "preaching" work, door to door in particular, is dead and has been for some time.

Magnum

BucketShopBill: The Governing Body is not stupid, they know that people are afraid of admitting "I was wrong preaching for Fifty Years, or Ten years, ect.." The benefit of coming forward even if you realize it's a total lie is harsh because your friends and family might not be like you, these concepts are too painful and thought-consuming so they remain in a state of anxious-chosen Ignorance.

I wonder how many JWs remain even though they don't believe it. All the JWs I know give evidence of being 100% believers except for two smart elders, and I think that once they are totally convinced JWs are wrong, they'll both admit it and leave.