Posts by Magnum

64

First Post - Emotionally Torn

by scaredtospeak in

i haven't been on here long but i found this site a couple days ago and quickly realised it had a lot of posts by people going through similar experiences as me.

i read some of the answers and it helped relieve some inner anguish i've been carrying since everything i came clean to my parents about everything i've been reading about.. .

i just have been going through a rough patch right now; that might be an under or overstatement depending on your own personal experiences with this kind of stuff.

Magnum

You're not alone. I wasted my entire life - the prime of my life - as a JW... over 30 years. And I'm sort of going through the painful withdrawals now.

Be respectful with your parents, but not apologetic. Tell your parents you're searching for truth. If the religion of JWs is the truth, then what harm can your searching do it? Can't truth backed up by the Supreme Being stand up to a little scrutiny and verification? What do JWs fear about the stuff you're reading? Do they think the words have some magical quality that will put you under a spell? They're really just simple facts.

She also asked me to stop reading all the material I have been that "contradicts God's word"

Tell her you're willing to open-mindedly and reasonably discuss the issue if she will do likewise. If she says she doesn't want to hear evidene you have against her beliefs, then tell her it's not fair that she regularly presents evidence to others against their beliefs. Ask her how she knows that the material you've been reading contradicts God's word. What specifically contradicts God's Word? Make her be specific - no generalizations. JWs simply can't answer the tough questions, they don't have the answers they think they do, and they cannot defend the organization against its history of failed prophecy, craziness, deception, hypocrisy, propagandizing, etc. That's why they generalize and run from real arguments; they always want to be in control of any discussion.

Again, don't be apologetic and don't let her (or anybody else) be in control. Why should you apologize or feel bad for using your mind and searching for truth. Read her 1Jo 4:1.

Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. -New Living Translation

Tell her that if she tells you not to test teachings, she's the one 'contradicing God's Word'.

When I say 'don't be apologetic', I'm not telling you to be disrespectful. Be calm and in control of your emotions. Dont' get mad. Be reasonable. Maybe you will slowly win them over.

The sun and the wind argued one day over who was the stronger. They decided on a way to settle the argument. They looked down and saw a man in an overcoat. They would see who could get the man to take his coat off. The wind went first. He huffed and puffed and strained, but the stronger the wind blew, the more the man buttoned up his coat and the stronger he held on to it. Finally, after the wind was exhausted, the sun took his turn. He simply smiled and very calmly and slowly shone on the man until... well, you can figure out what happened.

The point is: Be like the sun, not the wind. If you beat your parents strongly with words, they will just hold on tighter to their perceived truth. But if gradually expose them to sound reasoning, you might get them to 'take their coats off'.

24

Sister kills a boy in an accident! A sad, sad story in more ways than one.

by DATA-DOG in

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/03/22/4909006/youth-struck-killed-in-kansas.html.

a buddy of mine told me about this story.

a sister driving through a neighborhood struck two children, killing one.

Magnum

First thing that came to my mind was like what OnTheWayOut & Pistoff mentioned. So Jehovah can miraculously interfere in this matter by making sure two elders were in the area and one cop was a mag call, but he can't/won't prevent the accident in the first place? He cares more about comforting a distressed woman than saving a child's life??? If he had prevented the accident, he would saved the woman from needing to be comforted in the first place AND spared the child from death.

I thought JWs said Jah doesn't perform miracles today. If he interfered with the natural goings-on, the natural series of events, he performed a miracle. If he cause those two elders to be in the area and a mag call cop to show up, he performed a miracle.

Think about something else. How did the process work? If Jah caused the elders to already be in the area, then HE KNEW BEFOREHAND the accident was going to occur. HE KNEW and didn't stop it. I just can't wrap my head around the process. As mentioned, Jah had to have known the child was going to be killed if he caused two elders to already be in the area. So how did his thoughts go? "Well, let's see. Tomorrow, a child is going to be traumatically killed by a JW female. Let me cause two elders to be in the area so they can arrive before the cops and comfort her. And also, I know Officer Jones takes the mags (even though he doesn't read them), so let me maneuver events so he and his partner can be the first cops on the scene." It just doesn't make sense. Why would Jah be concerned about comforting one woman when there is so much horrific suffering that he allows to go on all over earth 24 hrs a day - suffering in the both the human and animal worlds? So he will comfort the sister, but let the poor monkey in the lab continue to suffer horribly every day... or the poor Romanian orphan live a bleak institutional life with zero love, affection, mental stimulation, etc? What about the poor boy they call "Fish" [look him up]? He lives a dreadful life as an orphan with a mental disabiltiy. He has horribly cracked, scaling skin, and the institution is in a hot, humid area with no air conditioning, making his skin condition all the more miserable. Why won't Jah help him? What about the British baby who was burned in a house fire - burned so horrifically that a hole was literally burned through her skull. I think virtually her whole body was charred. Her dad said he will never forget the smell he encountered when he went to the room she was in in the hospital emergency dept - the smell of charred flesh. Jah will comfort a distressed sister by making sure two elders are in the area to pray with her, but he will let an infant be charred beyond description in an inferno??? It just doesn't add up.

Also, which would have been easier - to prevent the accident or cause a mag call cop to show up and two elders to be in the area? All he had to do prevent the accident was cause the child to arrive at the site of the accident a second or two later or earlier, or cause the child to fall on his skateboard, or something simple. But think of all the logistical maneuvering it took to cause two elders to be in the area and a mag call cop to show up. Would have been far simpler to just prevent the accident in the first place - and better.

30

Don't you hate it when they just comment from the paragraph?

by toto555 in

isn't that just annoying?

can people even comment in their own words anymore?

how bad is it where you're at?

Magnum

It's bad where I am. Very annoyiing. We have one sister who reads the entire paragraph. She tries to change a word or two and say it like it's her words. She has no idea what she's saying.

14

sasquatch

by Hortensia in

had a long conversation with one of our local mount shasta denizens about sasquatch.

he says he has heard sasquatch, but hasn't seen one.

says there is a law in oregon against shooting sasquatch, $500 fine and a year in jail.

Magnum

Hortensia:

Who knows. No real evidence so far, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is no such animal. I still think it's unlikely. I saw a UFO once, a strange flying object. My husband saw it too. We didn't know what it was, but I didn't immediately assume that meant it was from some other planet. I assumed the military were up to something. It was near a huge air force base.

I saw something strange many years ago way the hell out in Utah at the back of beyond. I found out, much later, it was a stealth bomber being tested out in Utah.

UFO just means unknown -- doesn't mean ET is scanning us.

Reasonable, balanced, open-minded comment. I liked DATA-DOG's open-mindedness in his last comment. I believe in being open-minded with a dose of healthy skepticism.

25

If only there were another GB member like Ray Franz

by tornapart in

i'm just rereading crisis of conscience and was thinking if only there were others on the gb like him.

maybe things could change for the better.

for instance when he felt troubled that a woman couldn't get a divorce when her husband cheated on her with another man.. his response was this:-"the emotional upset i felt moved me to make a study of the original language terms (in greek) used in matthew, chapter nineteen, verse 9.".

Magnum

redvip2000: I'm pretty sure that most of the GB members are conflicted with the idea that this is God's organization. When you are a R&F JW, you look at the people up the chain as if they have special insight. People look at the level above them and figure they have a special connection to God.

But i'm sure that once you make it to the GB body and you look around, and see the way business in conducted ( arguing, debating, voting), you realize that the shroud of mystery that surrounds the GB, is totally unfounded. You probably realize that there is no red phone to Jehoober. It's just another group of corporate leaders trying to plug holes as best they can just in like any other organization.

And what do you do when you realize this? Well nothing of course. Keep your mouth shut and go through the motions; lest anybody find out. The last thing you want is to lose a nice cushy easy job, where everything is paid for you till the day you die, and 7 million people think of you as a representative of God on earth. What's better than that?

I've often wondered about that - whether any of the GB know TTATT. I wish I could know for sure. I agree with what you said about making it to the GB and looking around and seeing the way business is conducted. I also agree that if any of them do know TTATT, they ain't going to say anything. They have a choice of continuing to be idolized rock stars who travel the world with many perks or being window washers, so I think they all choose the former. They lack the balls to speak up for truth.

14

sasquatch

by Hortensia in

had a long conversation with one of our local mount shasta denizens about sasquatch.

he says he has heard sasquatch, but hasn't seen one.

says there is a law in oregon against shooting sasquatch, $500 fine and a year in jail.

Magnum

I think that a lot of people want to believe in such things because they are so bored and dissatisfied with their current mundane lives. Heck, I'd love to believe in such, too. Without his beliefs in such things, he just lives a boring life looking like Humpy-Dumpty. Such things bring excitement to his world. They give him hope that there's something else beyond his boring life. Kind of like with JWs. They hold on to their unfounded farfetched ideas because without them, they're just janitors and window washers.

I find such legends and beliefs to be interesting and entertaining.

What do you think about Sasquatch?

56

So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?

by androb31 in

feel free to skip the intro down to the actual purpose of the thread lol!!.

i'm a born in, 32 years in and almost 6 out.

i've been out of the jw's since october of 2008. i came out due to a variety of factors, blood, historical roots, false teachings etc... my older sister helped me out back in 2008 and i subsequently helped my brother exit and the 3 of us became "born again" christians.. i've been mostly lurking but occasionally posting on jwn for around 5 years.

Magnum

cofty: The natural world appears designed to maximise suffering. Most living things live short and stressful lives which are cut short by starvation, exposure, predation, infection or parasites.

I have pondered that for over thirty years. The natural world is hideous, cruel, filled with horror and suffering. I've seen unspeakable horror and suffering in the natural world. Just one example: A few years ago I heard a high-pitched blood-curdling scream coming from the direction of my long wooded driveway. When I found the source of the scream, to my horror I saw a snake about six feet long (some kind of non-poisonous one) with a half-swallowed juvenile squirrel in its mouth. The snake was swallowing the squirrel tail first and the poor squirrel was screaming in sheer terror.

I was able to scare the snake away and it dropped the squirrel. It didn't appear to be harmed, but it died overnight probably from the sheer mental trauma and stress of the situation. That's just one little sample out of many billions

I mentioned recently on another thread the horror and brutality and suffering that take place on the plains of Africa on any given night. Animals live in a state of constant caution, looking over their shoulders for danger. A vet told me recently that animals in the wild have it bad, that they often die slow deaths from diseases like distemper. We recenlty found an old coon dead under an outbuilding at our house. It was one we fed every night. She was so old, that she had gray hair and cataracts. She evidenlty crawled under the building and died slowly. It was really cold. We wondered what it must have been like to have been old, sick, and freezing cold and to have died slowly.

I agree, Cofty. I have extensive notes on this subject. Nature is cruel and brutal.

9

Is the new donation arrangment communism?

by toto555 in

the "richer" congregations giving off their surplus to the "poorer" congregations around the world.

"from each according to their ability to each according to their need".

the maxim of karl marx.

Magnum

The "richer" congregations giving off their surplus to the "poorer" congregations around the world. "From each according to their ability to each according to their need".

No, it's not communism; it's just a money-making scheme. There will be no surplus going to the poorer congregations. Money flows one way in JW land, and I think we should all know which way that is.

Consider, for example, disaster relief by the org. It's a huge money-maker. They get free labor and they buy cheap materials. Then they get insurance checks for the entire jobs. So all the money that would have gone to labor goes straight to the org. They probably even make a profit on the materials since they buy in bulk and negotiate deals. They don''t even pay for food and shelter for the volunteer workers. Such is provided by locals or by the workers themselves.

30

"we must be ready to obey, even if it doesnt sound reasonable from a human standpoint"

by stuckinarut2 in

so its now all clear!.

the reason why that damned wt article several months back said the quote:.

"we may be asked to do something by jehovahs organization, and we should be ready to obey even if it doesnt seem reasonable from a human standpoint or not".

Magnum

Thanks, DD.

80

new member- my story

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

"that which can be asserted without evidence, can.

be dismissed without evidence.

" - christopher hitchens.

Magnum

My story is similar. I think we are kindred spirits. I admire people who have the capacity to wake up, come out from under the spell, etc. I think they have some kind of inner strength and goodness that asleep JWs don't have. I think they also are just more intelligent.