Posts by objectivetruth

56

So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?

by androb31 in

feel free to skip the intro down to the actual purpose of the thread lol!!.

i'm a born in, 32 years in and almost 6 out.

i've been out of the jw's since october of 2008. i came out due to a variety of factors, blood, historical roots, false teachings etc... my older sister helped me out back in 2008 and i subsequently helped my brother exit and the 3 of us became "born again" christians.. i've been mostly lurking but occasionally posting on jwn for around 5 years.

objectivetruth

androb - I'll clarify what I meant, I didn't really say it right.

It's like the difference between Grave Sin, & Sin against the Holy Spirit. - Sin against the Holy Spirit, shows true Evil & complete acceptance of that Evil.. Thus stating that Goda statutes mean nothing to you, and you do not accept his sovereignity.

You can speak to God with Accusatory Words, just like you would a friend that you were upset with.. More important than what you say is your heart Condition.its important that you don't have a deep seated Hatred in your heart though.

If before praying you have already accused God in your heart that He does not exist, or that he is Evil and he doesn't care about you, this is when your Prayer may be ignored.. However if you have even a glimmer of Hope, what you say does not matter.. It is your Humble Attitude, that matters.

For a long time I had an addiction that I had trouble overcoming. After I succumbed to my addiction, i would not pray, because I knew that God would not hear me.. If I had prayed with this attitude, he would not have heard. But when I humbled my self and said, I'm going to trust that god is Greater then my heart.. This is when my prayers started to be answered.

Proverbs 3:34 " He mocks proud mockers but shows favor to the humble and oppressed."

Matthew 13:12 " For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

James 4:6 " But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

An awesome example of this is seen in Job.. Even though, Yahweh was not the one that Took Jobs Family & Posessions away from him, Job thought that it was God who was testing him..

Job 1:20-22 " 20 Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. 21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” 22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.

Job implied that God did all of this, but verse 22 shows that the words that Job uttered were not considered sinful by God.. The reason is that Job maintained Humility.

56

So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?

by androb31 in

feel free to skip the intro down to the actual purpose of the thread lol!!.

i'm a born in, 32 years in and almost 6 out.

i've been out of the jw's since october of 2008. i came out due to a variety of factors, blood, historical roots, false teachings etc... my older sister helped me out back in 2008 and i subsequently helped my brother exit and the 3 of us became "born again" christians.. i've been mostly lurking but occasionally posting on jwn for around 5 years.

objectivetruth

androb - thanks for the follow up questions, I didn't address your previous question yet, regarding specific questions..these are for sure valid and good questions.. Please allow me the afternoon, to think about these questions research them and pray on them.. I'll do my best to answer each one..

Keep up your questioning, but don't Lose Hope my Brother!

If you have ceased to pray, please consider resuming prayer.. But keep in mind, prayers that are not pure, or that are accusitory towards Yahweh are not answered.. Yahweh doesn't answer prayers that are not asked without faith.. So if you don't have faith, you can Pray for Faith.. This is the first step.. If you don't have faith that Yahweh will give you Faith still Pray.. His desire for you to come to know him is stronger then his not answering Prayers that lack faith.

if you'd like to discuss the nature of prayer, and how prayers are answered, we can go over that in the future as well.

56

So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?

by androb31 in

feel free to skip the intro down to the actual purpose of the thread lol!!.

i'm a born in, 32 years in and almost 6 out.

i've been out of the jw's since october of 2008. i came out due to a variety of factors, blood, historical roots, false teachings etc... my older sister helped me out back in 2008 and i subsequently helped my brother exit and the 3 of us became "born again" christians.. i've been mostly lurking but occasionally posting on jwn for around 5 years.

objectivetruth

Some People on this Thread are complaining that God kills innocent Children & 1'000s of people at a time.. Others complain that God allows suffering to exist.. I have to ask, which is it?

When God Kills someone, doesn't that end their Suffering? In reality shouldn't we all wish that God would Kill us?

Paul wished for Death - Philippians 1:21-23 "21For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better."

Solomon Understood the Gift of Death in this life - Exclesiastes 7:2 "2It is better to go to the house of mourning than to go to the house of feasting, for this is the end of all mankind, and the living will lay it to heart.

When God destroys someone, he is not Annhilating them, rather he is putting Them to sleep until the Last Day when they will ALL rise.

So to the question, of why God would kill Children, after he rebuked their parents for Child Sacrifice.. I say that those children were blessed to be taken by Yahweh.. It's much better to be killed by God than to be passed through a fire and Sacrificed to Satan, at the hands of your own Parents.. Perhaps he knew that the parents would continue to Sacrifice regardless of his warning?

An example of Yahweh mercifully taking one of his servants, to save him from suffering is seen in Enoch

Genesis 5:23 " 23So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him."

Yahweh know his plan for all if his children, and for this reason when he takes someone/kills them , it is not as we view it.

Something to consider...

Why really did God Destroy everyone earth except for 8?

The simple answer is this.. He destroyed them so that Satan could not interfere with the Promised Seed.

If Fallen Angels, had conti Jed used to teach all of the men secrets that they were not supposed to know, and Nephilim would have kept canabilizing Humans.. How would it have been possible for the Promised Seed to arrive as it was Prophesied in Genesis 3:15? It could not have, and for this reason the Flood Was a loving provision that Eventually will be a factor that Saves all Humanity, including those that it Destroyed.

56

So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?

by androb31 in

feel free to skip the intro down to the actual purpose of the thread lol!!.

i'm a born in, 32 years in and almost 6 out.

i've been out of the jw's since october of 2008. i came out due to a variety of factors, blood, historical roots, false teachings etc... my older sister helped me out back in 2008 and i subsequently helped my brother exit and the 3 of us became "born again" christians.. i've been mostly lurking but occasionally posting on jwn for around 5 years.

objectivetruth

- If I understand you correctly, you are saying God has made promises to certain of his servants that he absolutely had to fulfill in order to keep his word?Regardless of the collateral damage that would have to be inflicted?

Answer : There was really one Warning / Promise that he gave that has effected all of Humanity.. This was the Warning that said "eat this fruit (Whatever literal or symbolic meaning the fruit may have) and you and your offspring will live a life of pain and suffering."

It isn't really collateral damage. Because we are Adams Children, we are cursed just like He was. There is a Unbreakable law involved here, and this law is Genetics. Children inherent their parents Traits. In this case the Trait that we have Inherited is a Fleshly body that is not reconciled to Yahweh.

Yahweh is all Mighty & all Knowing.. But Free Will is Mighty as well.. The only way that Humans, can become what they're intended to become is with the Gift of Free Will.

If everything was laid out for us and Fate Existed.. How could it be said that we have Free Will?

Please also see my last post.. All over creation you see Duality and Opposites, I believe that the Reason for this is, that there is a Natural Law within us that only allows us to appreciate something, if we understand the opposite of that thing.

- Did humans put god in the position where his hands were tied and the choice was either mass slaughter or the universe ceasing to exist? Did he not know how things would go before he set them in motion?

The answer is Yes & No..

No To the Universe ceasing to Exist, as this is not an option and will never be an option.. Because it is impossible for god to lie.

Yes to the fact that Humans put themselves in this position, if our Father, did not sin, there would have been another method used to teach us Good vs Evil. I don't know if God knew that Adam & Eve would sin.. I do know however that it was not foreordained that they would sin.

56

So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?

by androb31 in

feel free to skip the intro down to the actual purpose of the thread lol!!.

i'm a born in, 32 years in and almost 6 out.

i've been out of the jw's since october of 2008. i came out due to a variety of factors, blood, historical roots, false teachings etc... my older sister helped me out back in 2008 and i subsequently helped my brother exit and the 3 of us became "born again" christians.. i've been mostly lurking but occasionally posting on jwn for around 5 years.

objectivetruth

androb -

If there are 100 people that Endure Suffering during their life times, does the Suffering of those 100 increase the suffering of each individual by 100% ?

It does not, One Person can only feel Pain with in their own Mind and Body.

With this in mind, view the History of the world with the Perspective of One Person, as opposed to many Billions.

One Person is Born and he lives 80 Years, with Constant Sorrow , Pain & Suffering.. No doubt those 80 years are TOUGH. He dies.

This One Person is then Resurrected, to an earth that is not Controlled by Evil..

This Person proceeds to live 1,000 years with Joy, Delight & Love..

At the End of the 1,000 Years God asks him, Do you wish to Live Forever?

What do you think this one person would decide? Do you think the 80 years that he suffered were so bad, that he cannot Enjoy Everlasting Life with no Pain or Suffering?

Or do you think, for eternity this person will Remember the 80 Years that he did not have God's support, and because of this appreciate God's support that much more?

If there is no Sad there is no Happy, if there is no Hate there is No Love, if there is no Hot there is no cold.

the only way we can appreciate what we have, is by having knowledge of what it's like not to have.

56

So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?

by androb31 in

feel free to skip the intro down to the actual purpose of the thread lol!!.

i'm a born in, 32 years in and almost 6 out.

i've been out of the jw's since october of 2008. i came out due to a variety of factors, blood, historical roots, false teachings etc... my older sister helped me out back in 2008 and i subsequently helped my brother exit and the 3 of us became "born again" christians.. i've been mostly lurking but occasionally posting on jwn for around 5 years.

objectivetruth

androb - I'm not the greatest with articulating my thoughts, but I'll try.

When Yahweh asked Abraham, to sacrifice Isaac, What did Abraham place bis faith in? Did he say to himself, "well I know that the Bible says that God is Love" so I'll put faith in God, because the Bible, says I should"?

No he definetely did not.l he considerd Yahweh's track record.. He considered whether it not Yahweh stuck to his word when he spoke it.

2 Hypothetical Questions he may have asked himself..

1. "When Yahweh, told my Forefather Noah, that he was bringing a deluge upon the Earth, to destroy all but 8 did he do it?

2. "When Yahweh, promised. Sarah and me a son, despite our old age. Did he fulfill his promise?"

The answer to both of these questions would be Yes.. There would have been 100's of other examples that Abraham could have mentally referenced as well.

Now.. Let's consider another hypothetical situation..

Let's say Yahweh had fulfilled 99 out of 100 Promises that he had made pre Abraham.. And the 1 promise that he did not fulfill, was justified because it would have meant death of a lot of Innocent people.

Could Abraham have COMPLETE trust in Yahweh? No, he could not he could only have 99% faith.

Hebrews 6:18 "So God has given both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can have great confidence as we hold to the hope that lies before us."

The impossibility of Yahweh telling a Lie is Absolute..

So when he tells Yahweh tells Adam

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life" Genesis 3:17

He cannot go back on his word. Yahweh withdrew his presence from Mankind, once they transgressed, and this has lead to pain,Suffering,evil and all types of unspeakable atrocities. If he were to exclude some from this pain, he would be a liar, and if he were to maneuver the situation so that there was not SO MUCH pain, this would be tampering with Free Will.

The fact is that Yahweh, allows everything that happens to Humans, because he Has to. If he did not allow it, he would be A Liar, and the Universe would cease to exist..

Another simpler example can be seen in Math.

Math like Yahweh never lies and cannot lie., the reason for this is That God is Math and Math is God. They are the same, in their absolute truthful nature.

Consider this hypothetical situation..

99 times out of 100 2+2 = 4 / However 1 in 100 times 2+2 = 8 - if this were to happen, the Universe would literally self destruct and all of humanity would instantly Die.

A child with polio Lieng in the Dirt in South Africa, is a Disgusting thing.. But Humans only live 70-80 years.. 80 years of torment, pain and suffering is better than every living being in the universe ceasing to exist.. Do you agree?

19

Another Gem from the Golden Pen of the Faithful Slave

by Slidin Fast in

look at this pile of steaming horse sh*t. this is meant to soften the horror of this god of war destroying 7,000,000,000 men, women and children in a holy jihad.

draw close book p 65 .

19 consider an illustration: suppose that a mans family was being attacked by a vicious animal and that the man jumped into the fray and killed the violent beast.

objectivetruth

Gingerbread - you missed one point..

Here's a better version of this illustration that draws a parallel between this man and God :

The man destroys the vicious animal to protect his family then uses his 'army' to go and kill all the other animals in the jungle. The man uses his own distructive power to napalm the jungle. This further exposes any animals who have sympathy for the destroyed animal. His henchmen kill every last living being. Other humans who fight against the man and his 'army' are destroyed excecution style. The loving father takes their homes and all their possessions and gives it to his family and army.

They all worship this loving, protective man forever and enjoy everlasting happiness.*

* After a Final Test.

The end.

18

This Generation.

by objectivetruth in

matthew 1:1 is called "the book of the generation" - everything in matthew refers to this same generation.. similar terminology can be seen in genesis 5:1 " this is the book of the generations of adam.

when god created man, he made him in the likeness of god.

" all of the descendants mentioned in genesis 5 cover a time period of 1656 years.. another example of this type of generation, reference can be seen in genesis 37 "v.2 these are the generations of jacob.".

objectivetruth

Interesting, thanks on the way out.

18

This Generation.

by objectivetruth in

matthew 1:1 is called "the book of the generation" - everything in matthew refers to this same generation.. similar terminology can be seen in genesis 5:1 " this is the book of the generations of adam.

when god created man, he made him in the likeness of god.

" all of the descendants mentioned in genesis 5 cover a time period of 1656 years.. another example of this type of generation, reference can be seen in genesis 37 "v.2 these are the generations of jacob.".

objectivetruth

It wouldn't be that human Race / all humans since it's only Spirit Annointed christians.

18

This Generation.

by objectivetruth in

matthew 1:1 is called "the book of the generation" - everything in matthew refers to this same generation.. similar terminology can be seen in genesis 5:1 " this is the book of the generations of adam.

when god created man, he made him in the likeness of god.

" all of the descendants mentioned in genesis 5 cover a time period of 1656 years.. another example of this type of generation, reference can be seen in genesis 37 "v.2 these are the generations of jacob.".

objectivetruth

John 10:16 " And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd."

Same thing.