Posts by objectivetruth

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

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objectivetruth

yadda yadda - If I understand your reply properly.. You are stating that since certain miracles have not been witnessed for 2,000 years or more, Miracles do not exist?

You say to look with my own eyes and find miracles.. Fair Enough.

Here are a few things that my eyes see..

Child Birth, A Limitless Universe, The earths natural & consistent regeneration of fresh, A human teaching an ape over 1,500 words in sign language, You and Me having this conversation as caring & thinking humans..

Oh yeah and I can't "see them" but I'll add my eyes to this list of Miracles. Can you honestly argue that Life it Self is less Miraculous than Resurrection of Life?

As for Hume he was an advocate of inductive reasoning, he was an empiricist, this ultimately led to absurd arguments like this :

"Though the Being, to whom the miracle is ascribed, be in their case, Almighty, it [i.e., the miracle] does not, upon that account, become a whit more probable; since it is impossible for us to know the attributes or actions of such a Being, otherwise than from the experience of his productions, in the usual course of nature. This still reduces us to repeat observations, and obliges us to compare the instances of the violations of truth in the testimony of men with those of the viola- tion of the laws of nature by miracles, in order to judge which of them is most likely and probable."

Essentially Hume is saying' If our current understanding of the Laws of Nature do not correspond with a proposed Miracle, it is impossible that a Miracle took place.

I will admit that I cannot explain Resurrection and the actual Mechanisms that are employed to bring it about. However I take the side of a man named George Campbell when considering miracles..

Campbell argued that the most important factor in determining the authenticity of testimony of a Miracle is the number of witnesses. Numerous witnesses and no evidence of collusion will supersede all other factors, Large Scale testimony is capable of providing absolute certainty even with the most miraculous event.

A friend of Humme asked him, what he thought of the Scotish Theologian Campbell's Essay which responded to Hume's essay on Miracles.

Hume's Response : "The Scotch Theologue has beaten me"

6

The Mahabharata (Ancient Hindu Scripture) and The Book of Enoch

by objectivetruth in

it's really fascinating to discover the similarities in ancient texts, in another thread howthebiblewascreated pointed out similarities in the epic of gilgamesh and genesis 8... as a naive jw, i feared, and viewed hinduism as a polytheistic religion that essentially worshipped demons.. to my relative surprise, hinduism actually started off as a form monotheism, viewing brahman as the creater and god of the universe.

as judaism transitioned from a strict monotheistic religion to what is now called christianity, simply claiming that god manifests himself as multiple gods, hinduism now does the same.

in any case i'm very naive as to the beliefs of hinduism, so i won't discuss that any more.. comparing two ancient texts : the book of enoch & mahabharata a crazy narrative is found... 87.2 and i raised my eyes again to heaven, and saw in the vision, and behold, there came from heaven beings that were like white men.

objectivetruth

LOL good point apohnophos Who Knows......

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

objectivetruth

Paris - Great Points! What you said is True beyond what any one else said.

Doctrine / Beliefs / Opinions are only beneficial if they Further Tolerance, Compassion and Love.. If they do the opposite, they are simply useless Knowledge. All of the worlds Religions have a core teaching of Love & Helping the Poor..

It should be our Primary Goak to Nelp the poor that come to this site beaten down, confused, lonely desperate and lost..

thanks for the comment.

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

objectivetruth

Check out these verses bible wascreated

Psalm 50:9 "I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens," 7“Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, I will testify against you. I am God, your God. 8Not for your sacrifice s do I rebuke you; your burnt offerings are continually before me. 9I will not accept a bull from your house or goats from your folds. 10For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. 11I know all the birds of the hills, and all that moves in the field is mine. 12“If I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and its fullness are mine. 13Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? 14Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,b and perform your vows to the Most High,

6

The Mahabharata (Ancient Hindu Scripture) and The Book of Enoch

by objectivetruth in

it's really fascinating to discover the similarities in ancient texts, in another thread howthebiblewascreated pointed out similarities in the epic of gilgamesh and genesis 8... as a naive jw, i feared, and viewed hinduism as a polytheistic religion that essentially worshipped demons.. to my relative surprise, hinduism actually started off as a form monotheism, viewing brahman as the creater and god of the universe.

as judaism transitioned from a strict monotheistic religion to what is now called christianity, simply claiming that god manifests himself as multiple gods, hinduism now does the same.

in any case i'm very naive as to the beliefs of hinduism, so i won't discuss that any more.. comparing two ancient texts : the book of enoch & mahabharata a crazy narrative is found... 87.2 and i raised my eyes again to heaven, and saw in the vision, and behold, there came from heaven beings that were like white men.

objectivetruth

It's really fascinating to discover the similarities in ancient texts, in another thread howthebiblewascreated pointed out Similarities in the epic of Gilgamesh and Genesis 8..

As a Naive JW, I feared, and viewed Hinduism as a PolyTheistic religion that essentially worshipped Demons.. To my relative Surprise, Hinduism actually started off as a form Monotheism, viewing Brahman as The Creater and God of the Universe. As Judaism transitioned from a strict monotheistic religion to what is now called Christianity, simply claiming that God manifests himself as multiple gods, Hinduism now does the same. In any case I'm very naive as to the beliefs of Hinduism, so I won't discuss that any more.

Comparing two Ancient Texts : The Book of Enoch & Mahabharata a crazy narrative is found..

87.2 And I raised my eyes again to Heaven, and saw in the vision, and behold, there came from Heaven beings that were like white men. And four came from that place, and three others with them.
87.3 And those three, who came out last, took hold of me by my hand and raised me from the generations of the Earth, and lifted me up onto a high place, and showed me a tower high above the earth, and all the hills were lower.

87.4 And one said to me: “Remain here until you have seen everything which is coming upon these elephants, and camels, and asses, and upon the stars, and upon all the bulls.” (Enoch Refers to Nephilim as Elephants,Camels & Asses - The Stars are Fallen Angels - The Bulls are Men)

88.1 And I saw one of those four who had come out first (The 4 mentioned are 4 archangels including Gabriel & Michael) , how he took hold of that first star, which had fallen from Heaven, and bound it by its hands and feet, and threw it into an abyss. And that abyss was narrow, and deep, and horrible, and dark.

- This is also mentioned at Jude:6 "And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day." -

Now The Interesting Verse :

88.2 And one of them drew his sword, and gave it to those elephants, camels, and asses; and they began to strike one another, and the whole Earth shook because of them.

From The Mahabharata :

“Gurkha, flying a swift and powerful vimana hurled a single projectile charged with the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame, as bright as ten thousand suns, rose with all its splendor. It was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause, and the birds turned white After a few hours all foodstuffs were infected to escape from this fire the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment.”

Enoch mentions a "Sword" giving to the Nephelim by an archangel, this "sword" shook the entire earth.. Clearly this was much more then a sword..

The Mahabharata was written over 5,000 years ago, with this in mind consider these statements..

Flying a swift Vimana = Some sort of Flying Vessel

Hurled a projectile = some sort of Missile

with the Power of the Universe = Atom Bomb? / column of flame as bright as 10,000 suns = explosion of a nuclear missile.

How could these types of things even be Imagined 5,000 years ago? Until Newton proposed the Law of Universal Gravitation, humans had no concept of Gravity, they simply thought that "God held things together" - In my view it is highly unlikely that someone 5,000 years ago could simply make up Flying Vesseles and Nuclear Missilles...

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

objectivetruth

Here it is from the Epic of Gilgamesh:

He sacrificed a sheep and offered incense at a mountainous ziggurat where he placed 14 sacrificial vessels and poured reeds, cedar, and myrtle into the fire.
The gods smelled the sweet odor of the sacrificial animal and gathered like flies over the sacrifice.
Then the great goddess arrived, lifted up her flies (beads), and said

Compared to Gensisis 8:21 " And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

objectivetruth

Howthebiblewascreated - I appreciate and respect the effort that you have put into Finding truth. I'm very interested in what you said about the epic of Gilgamesh, it is fascinatating to see how ancient writings often compliment each other..

I'm curious if you have read the Book of Enoch? Here are some interesting quotes found in it.

Enoch 98.15 Woe to you who write lying words, and the words of the impious, for they write their lies so that men may hear and continue their folly. And they will not have peace but will die a sudden death. 99.1 Woe to you who do impious deeds and praise and honour lying words; you will be destroyed and will not have a good life. 99.2 Woe to you who alter the words of truth, and they distort the eternal law and count themselves as being without sin; they will be trampled underfoot on the ground 104.10 And now I know this mystery; that many sinners will alter and distort the words of truth, and speak evil words, and lie, and concoct great fabrications, and write books in their own words.

Some declare that The Book of Enoch was one of the first Books Written, if you examine this Book, it Very Accurately predicts almost all Major Events found through out the 66 books of the OT & NT. Enoch saw visions that many would distort Truth and write lies distorting Truth.

The Book of Jeremiah supports Enoch's vision "

“How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie." - Jeremiah 8:8

Malachi also mentions this Malachi 2:7 ""For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the LORD Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth." 2:8 "But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi," says the LORD Almighty."

People find contradictions and incorrect Facts, and they automatically disown The Entire Bible and at times God him self.. If they would keep digging, they would find the answers to all of their questions.

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

objectivetruth

As Finklestein points out above, the Bible does indeed Contradict itself.

Jesus too contradicted himself, he came to Fulfill the Law, and perfectly expound it, he says in Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." But contradictory to this statement he says - "So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." - John 6:53 This statement clearly contradicted the Portion of the Law at Deut 12:16 that forbids the eating or drinking of Blood.

Those listening were Confused, and some were disgusted. As Tigersuit brings out above reading the bible, leads many to becoming atheist.. Likewise Jesus contradictory statements, lead many to reject the Messiah.

The issue lies in people viewing the Bible as God.

They reason.. God is supposed to be infallible, and the Bible is his Direct Word.. If the bible is found to be fallible, God is fallible, and from this they extrapolate the belief that God does not exist. Their expectatiOn of God is correct, God is a God of love and Infallible, but their viewpoint of the Bible is Flawed.

Jesus understood this reasoning, and he said "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God." Matthew 22:29 - What he meant about not understanding the scriptures is seen at Hebrews 4:12 " For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

God did not provide the Bible exclusively so that we could Learn who he is, and test him.. God provided Humanity the Bible so that we could be Tested by it.

Unless an Individual is Humble and Deaires to be Righteous, he/she finds what ever they wish in the Scriptures.

- If they have evil desires, they find Justification For evil.

- If they wish to commit fornication and adultery they find justification in the Bible.

- If they wish to follow their own Law as opposed to God's they find Contradictions in the Bible, that allow them to Beleive that God does not exist.

- If they seek to be righteous they find the Way To Life in the Bible.

8

In LESS than 200 words: Why is the JW.ORG religion immaculate EVIL?

by hamsterbait in

mine is:.

their god is a petulant, pschopathic, genocidal sociopath.

he requires them to teach lies as a sign of loyalty (see nov 15 study wt on knorr, and 20 pages later).

objectivetruth

They shut out many from entering into the Kingdom, because of their lies and Traditions of Men.

17

Question du jour - How Many of God's Servants in the Bible Had No Beard?

by berrygerry in

question du jour - how many of god's servants in the bible had no beard?.

legit question..

objectivetruth

Here is an impossible question to answer.. If the entire "world" began to shave their beards, and all of them were primarily clear shaven, would JWS say that JW men should have Beards, in order to look different from "The World"?