Posts by mizpah

20

Governing Body - How did it come about?

by IslandWoman in

the governing body is a devilish clown.

it was bad enough when knorr was president but since the governing body came and in effect deposed him things have gotten progressively worse.. how exactly did the governing body come about?

they did not invent themselves, sure there was the board of directors but they did not have the kind of power the governing body has.

mizpah

It seems that there was sort of a power struggle within the organization to share the authority that used to be exclusively that of the president. Russell and Rutherford had absolute control during their tenure. But things began to change in Knorr's administration. When the elder arrangment was introduced to the congregations, it was apparent that something was lacking in this "scriptural arrangement" at the headquarters. This was the chance for others to share the responsibility and power that came with leadership. Of course, as with all changes, the Society felt a need to justify it by giving the scriptural reasons. Some resisted this change including Knorr and Franz. But it was too late.

It's an old story. The Catholic church has struggled with the same issues down through its history. Does the Pope have sumpreme authority or is he subjected to that of the authority of the Cardinals? It is one that divided the church during the debates about the doctrine of the infallibility of the Pope in the 1870s. Many left the church and formed the "Old Catholics."

The very human organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is not immuned to the very human emotions and struggles that have beset other groups.

20

Is The WTS A Masonic Organization?

by Latin assassin from Manhattan in

is it possible that the wts comes out with 'new light' in order to hide a secret truth within the higher ranks of its organization?

mizpah

William Penwell:

The symbol of the cross and crown was used extensively by many religious organizations of that era. It still is used by some today. So, it was not an exclusive symbol used by Masons only. It is not surprising that Russell used it on his publications. The Bible Students had not yet rejected many of the trappings of other religions. The holidays were still celebrated including Christmas even at Bethel right up until the early 1920s. It was Rutherford who rejected these things and forced his views upon the organization.

There was a strong anti-Mason movement in this country after the Civil War. As I recall, there were rumors of a kidnapping and possible murder that caused a severe reaction toward this group. There were even anti-Mason political parties that were formed at the time. All these events would have been close to the time that Russell formed his Watchtower organization. But I've seen no evidence that Russell himself was a Mason or was influenced by that organization.

29

When the governing body die off, then what happens ??? Another "new class"

by run dont walk in

i am presumming that all of the governing body are of the "annoited class" and up there in age.. so what happens when they can no longer look after things, which should be soon, there are no other annoited really to take over.

and 10 years from now all the supposed "annoited ones" will be gone.. whta will become of the governing body ??????.

the watchtower must be a bit worried.. will there be "new light" and make up a new body ?????

mizpah

This has become a very embarassing issue for the Watchtower Society. A few years ago, a number of younger JWs felt they were of the "annointed" and began to partake of the emblems at the Memorial. The Watchtower addressed this by stressing the seriousness of this step and emphasized that the "calling" was generally concluded. On the other hand, it could not forbid individuals from partaking as the scripture was clear that God alone was the one selecting this class.

This now puts the Society in a very awkward position. As mentioned above, the Watchtower taught that only when an "annointed" person became unfaithful would Jehovah select a substitute. It became apparent that many of the "annointed" were becoming unfaithful. And yet this was not reflected in the individual congregations who still had old members partaking. So the Watchtower has taken the prudent course of keeping quiet about this obvious contradiction.

20

Is The WTS A Masonic Organization?

by Latin assassin from Manhattan in

is it possible that the wts comes out with 'new light' in order to hide a secret truth within the higher ranks of its organization?

mizpah

As I understand it, the gravesite of Russell is being taken care of by those who still follow Russell's teachings. They would be the ones that Jehovah's Witnesses call the "evil servant class." When I started to study in the early 50s, there were two groups in our city. One was the "Dawn Bible Students" and the other was the "Associated Bible Students." We would occasionally meet some of them out in service. Most were very elderly. They tried to tell me about the early history of the Bible Students and how Rutherford "stole" the Watchtower. They were always kind and considerate. Of course, I was young and ignorant about the early history of the Watchtower. I always managed to make a quick retreat.

Now I can understand their viewpoint. Rutherford did, in fact, steal the organization from those who Russell appointed to be his successors. He used "strong arm" measures to eliminate any oppostion. It has been estimated that many, if not most, of the old Bible Students left the organization at the time.

A few years ago, I was writing to an elderly man in Ct. He belonged to a group of "new covenanters" who broke with Russell early on when Russell taught that the church did not come under the "new covenant". Some of Russell's very close associates and relatives left the organization at that time. But this was long before the practice of "disfellowshipping" and "shunning."

15

I have a question about the assemblies.

by twolips in

.

when i was young (er) the society said the army came to the assemblies to observe how they fed the flock.. my question is, even though the asemblies were much more grander then now, with the food distribution ending and all, feeding thousands of people.

now they bring their own lunches.......i regress...does anyone remember how the military was in awe of us?.

mizpah

The Watchtower was always quick to report any event which boosted its reputation. I remember the rumors when we heard that the "army" came to observe the feeding of so many at one of the NY assemblies. The word was, of course, that the Watchtower was far more efficient than the military service in handling crowds of people and they "needed" the expertise of the organization.

Garybuss: Those eight day assemblies were brutal. Many had to sit in the bleachers in the hot sun for hours looking at the cool fountains on display in the field. There were many cases of heat prostration and severe sun burns. At one assembly, we even heard that an infant died from being exposed to the heat and sun. We had young children at some of those assemblies. We were expected to go out in the service in the mornings, attend the afternoon and evening sessions. We were counselled not to leave before the closing prayers. As I recall the assembly ended around 9PM. By the time we returned to our accomodations, we were exhausted. Needless to say, most of us did not show up for service the next morning.

Even for meals, we had to stand in long lines in the cafeteria. Often, we had to stand to eat. What came as a shock to me in later years was the information that the leaders sat in air conditioned club house seats and had their meals delivered to them. Later, when I was able to volunteer in the cafeterias of the assemblies, I experienced the myth of efficiency first hand. Very often, young and inexperienced people were put in charge of certain duties. On the serving lines, it was always inevitable that the large portions of food would be doled out to the youngest/smallest and the small portions to the adults.

Young JWs today who attend assemblies don't have a clue what it was like. They sit in air condtioned assembly halls and go out for a nice meal at a restaurant. And the assemblies are usually for only two or three days.

14

Christian Congregation/First Century governing body?

by zev in

what were they called back then in the bible?.

did they call themselves the "first century governing body"?.

or "christian congregation"?.

mizpah

There doesn't seem to be any indication that the Apostles comprised a "governing body." The issue of circumcision emanated from the Judaizers in Jerusalem. So, Paul and Banabus were selected by the congregation in Antioch to be sent to Jerusalem, the origin of the problem, to consider this important issue in front of "whole assembly." The respected opinions of the apostles and elders were circulated to those areas where the issue was most pressing. Beyond this particular account, no mention is ever made about another meeting of this sort. It certainly did not indicate that a "governing body" existed in the 1st century.

But it is worthy to note that the apostle Paul and others did not feel the need, before or after this meeting to be appointed an assignment or to get the approval of a "governing body" to perform their ministry work. It was the holy spirit acting upon these faithful men that directed their work. Paul makes this very clear in his letter to the Galatians.

20

Is The WTS A Masonic Organization?

by Latin assassin from Manhattan in

is it possible that the wts comes out with 'new light' in order to hide a secret truth within the higher ranks of its organization?

mizpah

Latin: I didn't know that. But I do know that Russell originally bought the property of the famous and scandalous preacher, Henry Ward Beecher, who was one of the most prominent ministers of his day and one of the most controversial. Many of the historical sites in Brooklyn were absorbed by the Watchtower Society and either torn down or drastically changed. That is one of the reasons that the Watchtower has a bad reputation among its neighbors in Brooklyn.

The Society's version of Russell's move to New York from Pennsylvania is another "tale" it spins. From what I remember, the Society says that Jehovah directed Russell to New York because of its location as one of the great shipping centers of the world. No mention is ever made to the fact that Russell was fighting alimony payments to his wife in the PA courts that had awarded her more benefits. This move took him out of the jurisdiction of that court. Maria was the original one that came up with the idea that Russell was the "faithful and wise servant" of Jesus illustration. She lived to regret it, though. And she later identified him as the "evil servant" of the same scripture.

The history of the Watchtower Society makes for fascinating reading. I would recommend Penton's book Apocalypse Delayed for anyone who has an interest in this subject.

7

An Important Question for JW's, they can't answer ??? what happened ???

by run dont walk in

for the sake of argument, lets say that revelation was completed (writing) in 96 ad.in fact, their book jehovah's witnesses in the divine purpose asserts that "jehovah's witnesses have a history almost 6,000 years long, beginning while the first man, adam, was still alive," that adam's son abel was "the first of an unbroken line of witnesses," and that "jesus' disciples were all jehovah's witnesses [sic] too.

" (pp.

so, after reading the above text, here's my question ............... .

mizpah

An equally interesting point is who made up the "faithful and discreet slave" when Russell was just discerning his "truth?" Was it comprised of those men of the Second Adventist movement that so influenced his thinking and beliefs. (Storrs, Barbour & others...) If so, why did he "run ahead of God's organization" and start his own "independent thinking" organization?

The fact is that Russell and Rutherford completely ruled over the organization without the consultation of any body of men. Russell himself was "the Governing Body" of his day. Rutherford was able to erase any influence that Russell had over the organization. First, he usurped the position of presidency. (Russell's intention was to give the authority of running the Watchtower over to a committee of men who were serving at Bethel at the time of his death. Did not these same men represent the appointed Governing Body of that era according to Watchtower doctrine?)

No, the teaching that the Watchtower represents the Governing Body or a "faithful and discreet slave"is,in fact,only a myth created by the Watchtower leadership to insure its own authority over its membership.

20

Is The WTS A Masonic Organization?

by Latin assassin from Manhattan in

is it possible that the wts comes out with 'new light' in order to hide a secret truth within the higher ranks of its organization?

mizpah

This theory has been floating around for some time. I don't believe there is any evidence that the Watchtower is or was in any way connected to the Masons. Conspiracy theories usually fall flat on their faces with good research. But some die very hard.

The "Protocols of the Jewish Elders" was proven to be completely false. In fact, it was an attempt to justify anti-semitism. But even today, this theory will occasionally raise its head especially among those white supremacy hate groups.

Latin: Why do you think there could be a connection between the Watchtower and the Masons?

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

mizpah

City Fan:

Why do you spend so much time reading and considering this material...and then feel a need to comment? I think if I was looking,handling and examining b.s. I would be quick to wash my hands and forget it.