Posts by mizpah

133

Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

by hooberus in

in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

mizpah

ellderwho:

Do you see the trinity doctrine as an essential belief for salvation?

16

"Rice Christians"

by RR in

ever hear of the term "rice christians"?

this is the term given to many christians in poor countries, a church comes in and begins to open up soup kitchens, schools and hospitals in hopes of attracting members.

the people go only because of the food they receive, since rice is cheap, they call them "rice christians,"

I'm not sure that the missionaries that are sent into the countries wanted "political power." I think most were altruistic and had the people's interest at heart. However, as seen in Michner's Hawaii, the missionaries always softened up the population to be followed up by the commercial and political interests that exploited the native population for their own ends. Many times, the second generation of the missionaries became these very men who took advantage of the situation.

Many of the missionaries were willing to sacrifice their health and lives to "spread the gospel." Many established health clinics and soup kitchens to help the poor and starving people in the country. But those who followed could care less. In many cases, they enslaved the population for their own greedy purposes.

23

"Rescuing a Great Crowd...

by onacruse in

...of mankind out of armageddon" (1967) remember that booklet?.

on the back page, a plug for the life everlasting book (yeah, the one that didn't really what must you do to gain everlasting life?

jesus christ said that taking in right knowledge "means everlasting life.

mizpah

minimus:

Yes, I know that to be true from my own experience. I was always very uncomfortable with the Watchtower's explanation of the 2,520 years of the "Gentile Times." I wasn't convinced myself...and hated it when I had to explain it from the platform. But I always thought that the Society would "reveal" information that would convince me. One "sister" and I had long discussions about it. She was always surprised that I couldn't see what was so plain to her. In later years, after we both had left, she laughed about it.

The one hope I have is that with each doubt a person develops, a little chink of the Watchtower is chipped away. It happened to me. And finally the whole thing collapsed and I left the organization. I'm sure many JWs are carrying the same doubts and questions that we did. Something will eventually trigger them into questioning the whole system of belief.

23

"Rescuing a Great Crowd...

by onacruse in

...of mankind out of armageddon" (1967) remember that booklet?.

on the back page, a plug for the life everlasting book (yeah, the one that didn't really what must you do to gain everlasting life?

jesus christ said that taking in right knowledge "means everlasting life.

mizpah

Onacruse:

It is encouraging to realize that some JWs reacted to the changing doctrine about "this generation." I thought it was a major shift that would cause many to have doubts about other teachings as well. Do you know any others who left because of this particular change?

It's hard to understand why those who experienced the same expectations of 1975 remained in the organization. I've concluded that many are tied to the Watchtower Society for emotional reasons than intellectual ones. How could anyone going through the late 60s and 70s forget those times? It has to be a matter of "selective memory" or "collective amnesia" as already noted.

23

"Rescuing a Great Crowd...

by onacruse in

...of mankind out of armageddon" (1967) remember that booklet?.

on the back page, a plug for the life everlasting book (yeah, the one that didn't really what must you do to gain everlasting life?

jesus christ said that taking in right knowledge "means everlasting life.

mizpah

Blueblades:

You're right. Many of us made great sacrifices for the expectant date of 1975. I left a good job, sold our house and moved to serve "where the need was great." We felt that there were only months left to the "old system." We moved into a poverty stricken area and lived in cramped quarters. Sadly, the congregation was rent apart with resentment and bitterness.

Other out of state "brothers" had moved to the new area and taken control away from the local "brothers." The small Kingdom Hall that the locals had struggled to build and were so proud of suddenly became not good enough. The new "brothers" built a brand new Kingdom Hall in Spanish stucco that was so out of place in this rural southern area. There were bitter feelings between the old and new brothers. But the Society commended the new "brothers" for their progressive and "theocratic" activities.

This was the beginning of my doubts about the Watchtower Society. We moved back but to another rural congregation. And I observed the same in fighting and squabbling that we had seen in other congregations. When I served as an elder in this congregation, I saw the disunity among the elders. The whole myth about love being the distinquishing mark of Jehovah's Witnesses was shattered. By the early 1980s when rumors about the problems at Bethel proved to be true, we decided that this was not "the truth" or "God's organization." We have never regretted leaving it.

10

The Watchtower Society and Faith versus Works

by UnDisfellowshipped in

"--isa 5:23; jas 2:8, 9.

(jas 2:14-26) here james was not contradicting paul by saying that one could earn salvation by works.

the watchtower, may 1, 1976 issue, page 276:.

mizpah

What the Watchtower Society says and what it does are two different things. On the one hand, Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that it is faith that leads to salvation not works. But on the other hand, all emphasis is put upon the necessity of the preaching work.

When a circuit overseer visits a congregation, he looks over the service record cards of each individual to determine their "spirituality." If the service is low and irregular, this person is judged to be "weak." The counsel given would be to increase the activity of field service, return visits and Bible studies. So, in actual fact, these "works" are used as a measuring rod of one's spirituality.

As noted, in the early church evangelizing was done only by those appointed to do so. The majority of Christians shared their faith with others but were not "evangelizers." But each had a spiritual "gift" to share with others. Even showing hospitality to others was one of those "gifts." And every member was an essential part of the whole. In a few short years, the gospel was spread throughout the Roman world without the aid of factories, literature and salesmen.

But since Rutherford's time, the preaching work became the focus of the Watchtower Society. And why not? It had thousands of "publishers" to sell and distribute the literature that was produced. This guaranteed a constant market for its product. It was good business....but not good Christianity.

5

"Wisdom is proved righteous by all its children"

by Frank75 in

there are many commendable things wrapped up in the witness ideal.

this is hard to dispute and is obviously what attracts people to it and did so many of us.

but just as the luster of something that we bought fades or tarnishes over time, so have the very things that may have attracted us in the first place.

mizpah

Pepper:

I laughed at your comment. It was a standard joke in our congregation as the most common phrase we heard was "You are to be commended...." I wonder if it has changed?

5

"Wisdom is proved righteous by all its children"

by Frank75 in

there are many commendable things wrapped up in the witness ideal.

this is hard to dispute and is obviously what attracts people to it and did so many of us.

but just as the luster of something that we bought fades or tarnishes over time, so have the very things that may have attracted us in the first place.

mizpah

Frank75

A very astute observation! Many of us have been disappointed by the failure of the Watchtower Society to live up to its claim of being "God's organization." But, perhaps, our own expectations were set too high. Human organizations can not live up to the Christian standards no more than imperfect humans can. After all, any organization is just a reflection of its members. The lesson is that we need Christ as a redeemer and savior not a human institution.

133

Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

by hooberus in

in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

mizpah

elderwho and herk:

I don't think trinitarians and unitarians will ever find common ground on this subject. But the important thing is to allow each other different viewpoints without judgement. We can still respect other viewpoints without agreeing with them.

In the long run, I don't think we will be judged by doctrine. Don't forget the Good Samaritan who was a despised apostate but was used by Jesus as an example of a neighbor who showed love and compassion.

9

Ethics at work

by joannadandy in

today i was listening to speaking of faith, a program on npr.. http://www.speakingoffaith.org/programs/2003/08/29_whistle/.

they were interviewing colleen rowley, the whistle blower who worked for the fbi and wanted to investigate mussoui, before september 11th.

she was, and so was the host, making the arguement that having a strong religious faith allows one to do the right thing in the face of adversity, and going against the grain, not following the herd blah blah blah.

mizpah

Gopher:

I was under the impression that Christians did it because of the "love of God" and "love of neighbor." Did I miss something in Jesus' teachings?