the latest watchtower, dec 15th 2003, is an out and out attack on the rank and file for dropping into a drowsy state spiritually.
ok, so armageddon didn't come before the generation of 1914 grew old and died.
but does that mean that the big a isn't near?
NN-
Another deep truth we can extract from this new light is that Adam must have been 59 years from his date of creation - and remember that Adam had no infancy, but was created as a mature man -
? ? ? ?
I'm not sure what you mean here. Would you mind explaining for me?
Thanks!
Imallgrowedup
hey guys,.
alrighty.
enjoying being single.. right now i have a "worldy" girlfriend (note the quotes " ").. but there's this incredibly beautiful jw girl that has shown interest in me.. (i'm not df or da, just not going to meetings.
Confu-
I have to admit that I had my mind made up before I even read your original post - a big DEFINITE on the Worldly Girlfriend. However, now that I've read your post, I've changed my mind: I think that you shouldn't have anything to do with either. I don't think you are ready for any type of a long-term relationship, let alone marriage. I'm not trying to diss you or put you down, but nearly every word you write shows me that you don't understand the concept of "love". It is very different than "lust".
When you are in love with someone, you aren't in bed with them thinking about someone else. If you are, then you are engaging in "sex", which is a biological function that dogs, cows, pigs, and goats are just as capable of engaging in as human beings who don't know the concept of "love".
When you are in love with someone, you aren't in bed with them thinking about how great you are at "treating" them, because you know her well enough to know that her idea of being treated well has nothing to do with the bedroom, your money or your looks.
When you are in love with someone, you aren't looking to "trade up" - with or WITHOUT the opportunity to do so. You are satisfied with what you have.
When you are in love with someone, the first things that come to mind when you think about them are the "little things" that make that person unique and special to you - not what everyone else can see just as easily as you can. You put your JW hottie in front of a 75-year old man with one hair follicle and the breath reminiscent of methane, and he's going to see exactly what you see - a 21-year-old "hottie". Nothing else. An object that walks, talks (presumably), and would look just as good in the passenger seat of his Lamborghini as she would hanging off his arm with all his buddies drooling all over her.
Until you've adjusted your perception of "love" (I assume you think you feel that way if you are thinking of marrying the JW girl), you just aren't ready - for her, for your worldly girlfriend, or any other woman, for that matter. You owe it to them and to yourself to mature a bit before you start making decisions like this one.
i came across this on a different board.
i haven't taken the time yet to read it, but its being "heralded" by a christian as a debate in which a christian minister won via logic over a minister-turned-athiest on the topic "does god exist".
i'm curious how sound the arguments are, and with some of the sharp minds around here, if an argument is faulty, i'm counting on it being discussed.. http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=cbb686d85bd2e5fa727074241ddc0181&threadid=7709.
JT -
Thanks for explaining. I appreciate it!
Wow. I've mentioned this in other threads, but it bears repeating - I've never been on a board with such a broad range of ideas. It's as if any x-JW's who find this site make up for all the lost time in the borg by exploring every idea they were forbidden to think, and they post it all here. I am completely fascinated. Just when I think I've seen how broad the spectrum reaches, another new idea comes up. Now yours stretches the spectrum once again. It's never occurred to me to look at the universe and/or ourselves as you do. I mean, I've pondered the "the world is a stage and we are but the actors" scenario, but I've never taken it to the level you have. Look at what being able to think for one's self can do!
I am absolutely beat, so I'm going to retire for the night. However, I know how long it takes to put together a post as long as your last one on this thread is, so I just want to let you know how much I appreciate the time you put into helping me to undestand your ideas better! Thanks!
imallgrowedup
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please be reminded of this alternative now that the watchtower society has brought horrible reproach upon god's good name.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/churchofjehovah/
So JW's are splintering off now?! OMG! I've got to quit taking so many naps! You miss 10 minutes on this board, and you miss a lot!!!!
Don't these dingdongs realize that with or without church elders who abuse children and the WT having ties with the UN, that they still evolve from a religion that once embraced pyramidology and astrology, believed that Russell himself was the Faithful and Discreet Slave, and that they are using a bible that is translated incorrectly?
Looks like we need an army to go over to the new site and open a few minds.
Can openers, anyone?!
imallgrowedup
just asking because my church of christ friend says you cannot be both.
You can knock me over with a feather! I truly thought that a Christian Evolutionist would be an oxymoron. I am not kidding you when I tell you I never realized what a sheltered life I lived before I began visiting this board! My eyes have not only been opened wide, but my eyelids have been ripped off as well! (Now doesn't THAT give you quite the mental picture?! LOL!)
No kidding.... a Christian Evolutionist?! What's next?! A Christian who doesn't believe Jesus was the Messiah?!
Egads!!!
imallgrowedup
i came across this on a different board.
i haven't taken the time yet to read it, but its being "heralded" by a christian as a debate in which a christian minister won via logic over a minister-turned-athiest on the topic "does god exist".
i'm curious how sound the arguments are, and with some of the sharp minds around here, if an argument is faulty, i'm counting on it being discussed.. http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=cbb686d85bd2e5fa727074241ddc0181&threadid=7709.
JT-
I had to read your post twice to get it's full, deep meaning!
Perhaps our consciousness of the universe, and the universe -- are one in the same.
This is a very interesting perspective. Again I find myself curious. My perception of "conciousness" is that it is something intangible, yet when I think of "universe" I think of it as something physical; as a place. For example, we have been to the moon, done a drive-by of Mars, and just recently got a probe as far as Jupiter. Therefore, I have trouble seeing our intangible conciousness as being one and the same as the concrete universe. What am I missing?
Perhaps it all comes into existence moment by moment, simply to be embraced by our conscious awareness. I get a sense that things love our attention and thrive on it.
This takes some thinking about as well! My inquiring mind has been turning this over and I find myself wondering if what you are saying is that before things come into existence, they already have feelings of needing and thriving on our attention? If so, how would they have feelings before they even exist?
My other thought on this is if this were true, would it mean that "man" is the creator of the universe, and if so, does that make him (us) a god?
I love hearing other's opinions on this type of subject! Thanks for sharing yours!
imallgrowedup
i came across this on a different board.
i haven't taken the time yet to read it, but its being "heralded" by a christian as a debate in which a christian minister won via logic over a minister-turned-athiest on the topic "does god exist".
i'm curious how sound the arguments are, and with some of the sharp minds around here, if an argument is faulty, i'm counting on it being discussed.. http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=cbb686d85bd2e5fa727074241ddc0181&threadid=7709.
I posted this link in another thread that I think some may find interesting. It's the personal account of a former JW, and his views on this very topic. It's a little on the long side, but, in my never-took-a-physics-or-astronomy-class opinion, it sounds pretty reasonable.
Is there anyone in here who has the academic background to either support or refute his ideas? We all have our feelings on the subject, but can anyone give an educated response?
http://www.premier1.net/~raines/story.html
Still Inquiring,
imallgrowedup
i came across this on a different board.
i haven't taken the time yet to read it, but its being "heralded" by a christian as a debate in which a christian minister won via logic over a minister-turned-athiest on the topic "does god exist".
i'm curious how sound the arguments are, and with some of the sharp minds around here, if an argument is faulty, i'm counting on it being discussed.. http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=cbb686d85bd2e5fa727074241ddc0181&threadid=7709.
JT-
To think that this happened out of the atheist's non-intelligent nothingness and barrenness seems quite foolish. To think that it came from the theist's deity spoken of and described in the Bible -- is even more foolish.
Interesting post. Call me naive, but I've never heard that point of view before, - or perhaps - I just haven heard it put quite that way. If the universe didn't come out of non-intelligent nothingness, or from the God of the Christian Bible, how do you think it came to exist? I'm not looking for a debate; I'm just curious.
Inquiring Minds Want To Know!
imallgrowedup
well, i sunk low on this one and basically told my best friend that she is stupid to for one second believe what the christian tv channel "evolution professor" says about the "facts".
first i said there is no such thing as an evolution professor.
she continually said she wasn't evolved from apes.
Panda,
Here is a link from a former JW and his views on Creationism vs. Darwinism. The guy appears to have a math and physics background, and has based his search upon that knowledge. He even provides links to help people understand particular mathmatical and physical laws, which help the reader to understand where he is coming from. Anyway, it's kind of long-winded, but if you scroll down to the heading "The Search" where he finishes up with his torture in the WT and begins with the processes he went through to arrive at the answers he did, you may find it an interesting read. Whether you or I, your friend or anyone else agrees with it or not, (it is purely up to each individual to decide), I like the way he reasoned through his beliefs using math and science.
imallgrowedup
my jw neighbor wasn't able to come on monday after all, but we rescheduled our meeting for today (wednesday).
on monday, i had a bit of material around, and my next-door neighbor stopped in.
i found out that she was in a bible study with some jws!
Bebu-
I can't tell you how much I appreciate you sharing your stories about talking with your neighbor! I have never been a JW either, although my mother has been one for 40 years (like your neighbor), and I have been working on getting her out, too.
I just wanted to let you know that your posts are not only interesting to former Witnesses who see the great eye-opening job you are doing with your neighbor, but also helpful to those of us who have only a basic understanding of the WT and need all the strategies we can find to help get our own loved ones out of the borg. Thanks for taking the time to post what you are doing. You are doing more than just helping your neighbor, you are helping me and others like me!
Thanks! Great job!
imallgrowedup
