Posts by Frank75

78

A fair and reasonable question for Jehovah's Witnesses

by Gregor in

your organization has always been intently focused on "witnessing" and this includes going right up to strangers homes, knocking on their door attempting to engage them in a discussion of their beliefs.

you come prepared to point out the error of whatever faith they hold.

doctrines such as immortality of the soul, the trinity and eternal torment in hell you declare as false teachings and can back up your assertions with scriptures and skilled argument.

Frank75

however i want to know if others feel they way gregor does. if that's the case, let me know, and i can move on. that would be a shame because so far i am finding this enjoyable.

Wait a minute here! This is a type of emotional blackmail IMHO.

How can you write off this board based on what Gregor wrote above (I see nothing other than a direct request for more information from you) and the existence of others who might "feel the same or agree with him" after all you have written about everyone being entitled to their opinion? Let alone saying that it is not fair to blanket all JW's because of a few bad apples?

Kindly consider the NWT " (1 Peter 3:14) 14 But even if YOU should suffer for the sake of righteousness, YOU are happy. However, the object of their fear do not YOU fear, neither become agitated."

See, no need to be agitated. In fact you should be happy when someone takes a jab, even giddy!

As a JW for 40 years I EXPECTED to be treated insolently by outsiders, but still obeyed Peter who continued and said vs 15, " . . .always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect."

If you are Christ's true disciple (and a better than most JW by your own comments) it would show in your actions when questioned, even when cornered (yes even disrespectfully). The onus from above to be respectful is on you, not the one asking you. You have Jesus example to guide you. He never ran from or ignored questions, he only evaded those who wanted to kill him prematurely. There is no chance of that happening here.

So do your duty as a Jehovah's Witness, bear witness to us "with a mild temper and deep respect" and all should go smoothly. Right?

Frank75 (my belated welcome to this board, and remember you are the visitor)

23

The real story: Is your congregation stagnant, dwindling or thriving?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

with the 2007 service year stats out one could be forgiven for thinking that wt's problems are over, the child abuse settlement an itch in their bethel backside and the blood issue a minor annoyance.. if the truth were known, it is probably that more often than not, congregations are in decline, attendance is poor and few new recruits are not already jw family members.. so, if you know how your congregation is doing, if you have the pulse of your hall, let us know.. .

my congregation (which shall remain nameless).

dwindling attendance at all meetings (around 80%).

Frank75

I told my wife that either I can't count, the attendants can't count, or somebody is lying.

When I was the attendant in charge of this back in the 90's, I soon realized the numbers was all the CO was interested in. I then started to fudge the count. I never was so brash as to go plus 20, maybe as much as 4-6 to get above the circuit average was my goal.

It did the trick until someone figured out what I was doing and I was moved over to Subscriptions. LOL

It was fun while it lasted, but in true JW dysfunction no one ever said a thing to me. I guess it just bugged them to hear the CO praising the faithful for a change.

The other pricks were nasty at the counting. They would not count sleeping or inattentive youngsters (actually in the guidelines) and one asshole counted as soon as the meeting started and then waited until the Service Meeting announcements to count knowing full well that people were still in the washroom.

Over all, I think what has been stated is accurate. The dubs are in sad decline (no matter what their annual report says, they are provable habitual Liars) People still in are mostly lost as they search for the ideal congregation. That is why you can drive by a Hall shared by a number of congo's on a Sunday and see 20 cars at 10:00, 25 cars at 1:00 and then a capacity parking lot at 7:00!

The Internet and sites like this (when the mods aren't out of control) are changing that to a degree.

Frank75

120

calling all firearm freaks...............

by primitivegenius in

looking at the gopher thread............. we got us some good old fashioned redneck gun afficiandos................ just curious......... whats your top ten wish list.... pairs dont count as two.

) a pair of les baer srp's built on a para ordinace p 14.45 frame......... all stainless but with baer coat im thinking olive and i want the light rail.

) a pair of consecutive sn ruger vaqueros in .45 colt w/ extra .45 acp cylinders rebuilt by gary reeder or doug turnbull..........4.5 barrel.

Frank75

I just got my unrestricted firearms license (shotgun and rifle) and will be going shopping after christmas. ( Got a Rifle safe for christmas but I am not supposed to know it...hehe!)

What do you rednecks recommend for this wanna be?

Remember, no matter how large the magazine or clip, Ontario restricts it two 3 cartriges/bullets max. (trying to be as gay as Quebec)

Frank75

PS Is bikerchic alowed into this thread?

94

What Has Happened to This Place!!??

by journey-on in

jw
friends

what has happened to this place??!!.

i left this board a while back to reorganize and get refocused.

the vibe of jwd was changing and the forum became "unbalanced" (for lack of a better word).

Frank75

now you see why he has only 3 posts left!
Buy a clue Frank, sigh.

If clue" is Dyke talk for tickets to the Lesbian Christmas ball, I'll take two.

My buddy and I like to watch if the girls look half decent. Send me a pic of you and your squeeze and I'll let you know how you score.

But seriously, you didn't have to go show everyone the glove fits you so well.

I could have been talking about any of the Mod's or it could be just something harmless and funny to make people laugh and lift the mood.

But oh no! You have to come right in on cue, Guess Who Everybody!

Way to go!

Frank75

94

What Has Happened to This Place!!??

by journey-on in

jw
friends

what has happened to this place??!!.

i left this board a while back to reorganize and get refocused.

the vibe of jwd was changing and the forum became "unbalanced" (for lack of a better word).

Frank75

Speak of the devil! If it aint my old friend DYKER Chic.

Have a good one.

Frank75

Is that the right shade of kacky?

Damn, now I am down to 3 posts left.

94

What Has Happened to This Place!!??

by journey-on in

jw
friends

what has happened to this place??!!.

i left this board a while back to reorganize and get refocused.

the vibe of jwd was changing and the forum became "unbalanced" (for lack of a better word).

Frank75

I agree, lots of soap and drama here. It would be ok if the sex was there too.

I think one of the reasons may be the mods. Their playbook seems to be loosely based on the Watchtower KS book combined with the Vagina monologues.

The new Anointed Gods (Godesses)" of cyberspace.

Hail!

Frank75

Oh look!! I now have 4 more posts I can make out of my limit of 5

5

The spiritual bully

by Hiddenwindow in

jw
friends

the watch tower falsely claims that the entire international witness brotherhood holds to the same way of thinking on doctrinal matters; that all members in the congregation who are good christians deeply believe in whatever the faithful and discreet slave provides.

well, one thing is to pretend that you are in agreement with whatever is presented to you and something very different is to really believe in it.

it must be reminded that nowadays, in most mainstream religious groups, political parties or other forms of social groups, absolute uniformity in the way of thinking is not a prerequisite to join, because those groups recognize that such uniformity is not possible.

Frank75

Not to take away from Hidden windows excellent post above.

HW - Raymond Franz's books demonstrate that it is not the case.

I think that you and Auld Soul are talking two different things. True, the original IBSA was a non denominational inter religious movement and Russell did not start out to be a bully, but eventually did as is argued in Penton's Apocalypse Delayed. Comments Russell made even early on implied he had some special gift, knowledge or contact with the divine. He once wrote that people who read the bible without his books would go into spiritual darkness within 2 years. That is spiritual bullying, no matter how sincere he was about it.

Since people bought into it and came under his tutelage, he started to bully the IBStudent even if only in a gradual way. First he brought in structured meetings with a tighter and tighter agenda. Then the arbitrary rules started and so it went until he passed on the towel.

That being said, Auld Soul's comment doesn't disagree with what you say or what I wrote above. Auld Soul puts the bullying on the "Jehovah's Witnesses" and the mastermind of the true JW FDS doctrine. That bullying which is undeniable, was merely intensified when Rutherford took over. It became an art foem by the time that group of Bible Students that was following him took on the new name.

Forgive me for speaking on his behalf, but that is what I believe he referred to when he said "there has never been a time when Jehovah's Witnesses (as a religion) were not spiritual bullies".

That is the simple truth for clarity

Frank75

17

Refuting the Practice of Shunning

by Dead Man Joaquin in

the watchtower claims that the practice of shunning is/was:.

1) scripturally tenable;.

2) practiced by early christians.. .

Frank75

The Watchtower claims that the practice of shunning is/was:
1) Scripturally tenable;
2) Practiced by early Christians.
How would you refute the above statements?

The WT claims whatever it wants or suits them at the moment. Shunning is not new as it is practised by many cultures and hardly finds backing in the bible or the teachings attributed to Jesus.

Think about the WT stand on Tattoo's. Regardless of your opinion of the practice, forbidding it is "scripturally tenable". Is that enough? Reading the scripture behind that stand reveals that the preceding verses forbid mixing different thread. So if you wish to be fair or true to the principle, then cotton and poly blended clothing is out!

But that is ridiculous! Just as ridiculous as arguing shunning from the practice of selective proof texting from the bible.

Lot's of things were "practiced" by early Christians. This is not a fair assertion to make. Just because they thought, taught, believed or lived a certain way does not make it binding on us. This is a WT special pleading argument that it uses when it is convenient.

They approved of and practiced slavery!

If you want to see an essay comparing the practice of JW's and compared argument by argument and scripture by scripture, then PM me your email addy and I will fire it off to you.

Many of the things said here so far are showing it for what it is. Nothing to do with the bible, but everything to do with power and control. Some of the comments show a passive agreement with the practice in some shape or form. However I believe that is just a left over from a JW upbringing, or a knee-jerk reaction when something offends our sensitivities.

Jesus taught functionality in Matt 18:15-17. Deal with things as privately and lovingly as possible. Cover over weakness with love, stop judging and condemning and forgive freely 77 times!

What place does shunning have amidst those teachings of Jesus? Let alone the antics that goes along with it, such as judging tribunals in back rooms which follow none of the rules of modern or ancient justice.

Frank75

20

Were You Ever Hopeful That A New Elder Would Make Things Different?

by minimus in

jw
friends

did you believe that just maybe, if there was a new elder appointed in the hall, that things might be different?

i remember hearing how happy people were when i first became an elder.

they would say, "we need new blood!

Frank75

".... a CO who took delight in doing the exact opposite of what BOE wanted. The CO who appointed 3 elders who the Body did not think were ready ..."

I saw this happen on occasion. What you were left with was elders who were treated so badly by the others as an outsider or illegitimate elder, that they soon gave out or moved away, which was fatal in itself given JW letters of introduction.

We had one guy in a Spanish congo that was the nicest elder I had ever met, so nice I didn't think he was an elder until he said so to my surprise. He even worked in my business for a while and was very kind, loving, somewhat honest (a Latin thing as well as JW LOL) and hard working. I was surprised to find out he was an elder as he only ever was seen giving announcements. He was also an assistant bookstudy conductor to a "Gringo" elder (which most of the elders were) and in 3 years had only taken the study once. In 3 years he had never given a talk outside of the school, #2 and #4. How many congregations have so many elders that assistants are elders?

He told me they would meet without him, talked behind his back and constantly challenged his qualifications every CO visit.

I am sure people can point out positive results when this happens, but that would be rare.

Going to the Society or CO/DO is mostly going to fall on deaf ears. It's like the police getting a wife complaining her husband beats her, so they call him up and ask him. He denies it then lays the worst beating on her he has ever done!

It is the structure of it that is bad, not necessarily the people.

Frank75

20

Were You Ever Hopeful That A New Elder Would Make Things Different?

by minimus in

jw
friends

did you believe that just maybe, if there was a new elder appointed in the hall, that things might be different?

i remember hearing how happy people were when i first became an elder.

they would say, "we need new blood!

Frank75

There was always a naive expectation that "Jehober" had finally answered our prayers. Good guys do get the nod every once in a while. But sooner or later the humbling experience of appointment to a power position goes right to their heads. Asking turns to demanding and then tyranny is close on it's heals. Or they turn into cowering, sniveling, yes men too afraid to lose their title and status.

In a religion that demands perfection it can hardly be expected to turn out differently.

We had one guy move in after the CO sent two warring elders to different congregations (to wreak havoc there I might add). He was an asshole in many ways, he was obnoxious, over bearing and single handed. He would call me to check up on talks I was assigned and even typed out announcements for me once to show me "how they were to be done". He was not my cup o tea but I was glad he was there.

His involvement and interest was refreshing given the apathy of most elders (until someone touches a booby). He was a super shot in the arm for the congo though and for that I was grateful. The elders left behind hated him but as all politicians do, they lifted loyal arms high.

After about 6 months he gets a dose of conscience and comes forward and cops to some inappropriate homosexual activity he has engaged in. (basically molested a younger prodigy who lived with him and his wife for a while). He gets df'd and the hall goes right back to the way it was.

My two cents!

Frank75