Yeah! At my own JC
I still had keys to the hall so I planted a recorder to get everything that went on, before, duing and after. They took about 5 minutes to announce their verdict, so I left, went back later to get it. It sounded like they were having a party, hi 5'ing each other.
And I always thought they were so sad after handing someone over to Satan! Not really, DF'ing anybody was a strange time of joy for many of them.
Frank75
i wanted to say a few things to current and former elders.
it was really a post by alltimejeff on 10/1/2009 that got me thinking about this and i address a few things that he says here.
but i dont want to single him out because i really think that he is typical of many, and he did in fact apologize for his actions at the end of his post.
It's a cult man! And even if it wasn't, the bible said that Wolves in Sheep's clothing would treat the "flock" badly. So there would be no reason for surprise on your part.....I wasn't surprised...dumfounded yes, but not surprised.
I have to chime in to say that there is nothing extra ordinary about ATJ's ephiny and tell all. I remember reading his rant and totally understanding where he was coming from. I felt for him on the opposite end of the spectrum as I lacked ambition at his age and was corralled into serving when I was a tad older.
After becoming an MS I Constantly sought what God wanted of me and trying to filter out WT agenda was hard at first, but it was life experience that taught me to see through much of the drama as time went on. It certainly didn't come from training or the examples of others. (although admittedly there were some good examples)
My work and business responsibilities taught me hard lessons about judging people too harshly or getting caught up in politics, jealousy and personal vendettas. I lost good workers and employees, some who could have been life long friends, learning those lessons. So perhaps that spared me from ruining "spiritual" lives.
Guys like Jeff did nothing wrong in my opine. Those who placed them in the JW hierarchy with its draconian values bear that blame.
On the other hand I have to draw the line at mid life range, which is plenty of time IMHO to smell the coffee. We still need to take responsibility for our actions at some point.
As an example of the Tomfoolery, my own father who was an elder since the inception of the JW arrangement, was one of the good guys who always seemed to be on the side of the underdog. But even so he turfed his fair share of people he wasn't ever qualified to judge. Otherwise most of the suffering caused was inadvertantly, not to mention his own family.
However, now he has left the witnesses for over a decade, he will still argue with me that a person is not spiritually strong if they don't (didn't) do 10 hours a month!
It always comes back to WT policies.....as has been ably illustrated here.
Frank75
hi everyone.... just curious how many of you knew when you were active, about the societys official teaching regarding jesus the mediator.
i was floored to find in my research, that they teach jesus is the mediator for the 144,000 only.
and it is only by our association with them that we might have salvation.. i don't know about you guys but i was blown away when i learned they taught this.
No need to be confused as the JW view is Hogwash.
It is just being pointed out that just as with the mediator thing, most Witlesses just "don't go there" when it comes to a belief that says a merciful god will destroy children who's only sin is being born to a family not in the JW cult!
There are a host of "don't go there" beliefs, but Blondie was kind enough to only point out the one.
Frank75
Stephen:
There is nothing clear on the JW or your own doctrine in the bible. It is all implied through twisting and proof texting. However even WT official position on Matt's "meek who inherit earth" relates to those who are adopted to be heirs with the glorified Jesus "in heaven". The earth is just supposed to be one of their "things".
Conversely a script often used by us in field circus and when self congratulating ourselves from the platform, actually puts the lie to any such hope. Speaking of the dead:
. . .and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun. . .(Ecclesiastes 9:6)
The gist of the verse is regards the immediate circumstance of the dead, however the last expression perpetuates that circumstance continually.
FYI a clearly spelled out warning in Luke 21:8. Short and sweetly which says:
. . ."Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’
Sound like anyone you know?
Frank75
i was suspossed to go to the meeting today, gotta to keep up the pretense in order to facillitate my fade.
instead i had nice lie in, i visited my non-witness dad, and then met up with my first aspostate from this site mr. majestic.. i didn't want to go to the meeting because meetings make me angry, i can now see the techniques used to control the congregation by fear.
i can't stand the thought that so many good people are being fed a banquet of lies and deception.. i could so easily never attend again..
Cold Turkey works best, at least it did in our situation. We were fading but the old "where else can you go" had us by the short curlies for a while.
Then one meeting in a rather boring talk on the SM the goof on the platform (and he was at the best of times just a goof) started one of those impromptu things by deprecating woman. He said something to the effect "in order not to see your wife's faults you need to put one hand over your eye......then this lady commented that in order not to see her husbands faults she needed both eyes covered. THAT I thought was funny, but then the part turned into a food fight which got lower and lower. My wife leaned over and informed me she was leaving and if I wanted to catch a ride with her I had better decide.......so we went home and that was the last time we went to a meeting.
I know everyone is different and we all have to do what is best for our own circumstances, however it begs to be asked, if you were dieing and in a clinical trial for a new cancer drug and found out before it was over that you were on the placebo, would you continue?
Frank75
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
where is AlanF when you need him...sigh........I am on my 3rd Scotch!
Frank75
as a true scot, i'm deeply passionate about most things scottish, any possibly one of our small nation's most successful export is my main favourite - our single malt whisky heritage.. i'm writing this while savouring a 12 year old highland park - distilled in the orkney islands, the most northerly distillery in scotland.
it is one of my favourites - it was my late father's favourite tipple.
yet, only 500m from my house is scotlands oldest legal whisky distillery - glenturret, in crieff.
It's always time to talk about and consume Scotch.
I love it all and find there is a time for each Scotch to enhance a particular moment. Whether it is a cigar on the patio or in the Hot Tub, as an aperitif, to cap off a great meal or a great day on the golf course, or to help with the fever or chest cold.
The Islay SM's are perfect for the colder whether of Fall and Winter.
Single Cask or Double Wood single Malts, 18, 20, 25 or 30 year old SM's or Cask strengths are for bragging and boasting with friends or savouring alone.
Younger Malts also have their place but I draw a line where a scotch gives no specific age.
Not to be overlooked are some Exquisite blends such as JW (pardon the pun) Blue Label or Chivas Royal Salute which likewise have their place and are a great way to appeal to a broader palate.
SCOTCH....Now your talking Cult and I am all in!
Frank75
PS this thread reminds me of our old friend Never Going Back. Here's to you brother...Slainte Mhath!
a good friend and long-time elder just back from patterson, asked me what i thought is he most prevalent problem elders are facing today....told him i had no idea.... he said "pornography" by far the most vexing problem for them... hard to believe, no?.
Donny:
I had the similar "fortune" of inadvertently gaining access to judicial cases. The truth is that these "envelopes" are supposed to be sealed and only opened again if and when the info is needed ie a "re-offense" or request for reinstatement. However they are usually left open or wrapped with a rubber band. I was equally mortified at how much "fornicating" was going on, but especially by who. Also who got off lightly and who faced the full weight of their authority. It spoke to my suspicions regarding beefs that certain ones had with others, and it seemed to play out in the punishments given out.
There seemed to be an enthusiasm for the nitty gritty and words such as "penis" "nipple" "vaginal" "penetration" etc were common as well as other comments that were neither here nor there in my opinion.
However one case of a couple who had a younger 17-18 relative stay with them was interesting for the opposite reason. She was drugged and raped over 2 or 3 nights. She only recalled faint memories of him and her going down on her like in a dream. Likewise she later reported the pain from sex that she had apparently never had before so was not acutely aware of what happened until she talked to her parents.
She was given beer with something in it as far as allegations went. This was also around the time of the Paul Bernardo and Karla Homulka rape and murder case. (google it)
Well as you can imagine the elders in several congregations were trying to get to the bottom of it as this couple went into hiding and then surfaced in this (my old congo) according to the notes "just recently".
The notes had a tone of being a real hot potato issue that needed to go away. Instead of contacting the police everyone was told to kiss and make up and pretend the whole thing never happened so Jehobers people wouldn't get a bad rap. I have been long removed from that sickness so do not know if anything happened later down the road.
Sometime after I left the witnesses I went to the police and they were equally disinterested in investigating it without a complaint from the girl who as I recall was never specifically mentioned in the notes.
Frank75
a good friend and long-time elder just back from patterson, asked me what i thought is he most prevalent problem elders are facing today....told him i had no idea.... he said "pornography" by far the most vexing problem for them... hard to believe, no?.
The old youth book had a statistic (unsourced of course) but I believe it is actually in Kinsey's work on Sexuality.
98% of men and just over 50% of women masturbate. I was at the meeting as a teen struggling with my own masturbation guilt/issue when I glanced around the hall and tried to picture 98% of the men whacking off and 55% of the women playing with the man in the boat. I actually took a measure of comfort from that.
Regardless of its accuracy it is a JW fact presented in a JW publication.
Considering that, it is safe to conclude at least a majority if not all present GB males who can still get a stiffy are wanking. The same goes right down the chain of males in the Dub religion. (and at least 1 out of 2 JW princesses)
As to the initial point in this thread, Pornography and mental images of fantasy only helps to masturbate.
Masturbation is a healthy outlet for both men and women. Although there is nothing healthy about the JW sex starved environment.
Frank75
elders love to counsel people.
it feeds their ego.
over the years, you must've been counseled on different things.. when i was almost of age to become a ms, an elder counseled me for my "lack of seriousness".
What did you get counseled for???
I always seem to come late to these threads. However the only time I ever received "counsel" it never actually happened!
I was deleted as a MS back in 1998 and the elders couldn't specify exactly why, they just said they felt I no longer qualified, respect the conscience of the body was what I was told by the CO (he was the real reason for it). There is more to what happened as I contacted the Society, but they don't usually get too involved with MS issues.
Anyway years later I had occasion to see the letter of introduction that was sent when we moved congregations and it had the S206 form for deletions attached to it. This form gave the reason for my deletion:
S-206 supplemental
“Over the past 2 years Br Blank has been strongly counseled regarding his undermining trust in the elder arrangement, his greeting disfellowshipped ones and his rejection of counsel by the elders and the circuit overseer. Counsel shared w/80 5/15 pg 6 “Why be in subjection”, Heb 13:17, Km 3/97 regarding disfellowshipped ones, etc.”
“He has become increasing defiant and critical, spreading his dissenting ideas throughout the congregation(s) ...Several attempts were made to discuss the pending deletion announcement with him. It was not until the week of June 21 that he would allow this discussion. When he was also informed of the elders decision to recommend his deletion as a regular pioneer, he challenged the validity of this decision and refused to return the S-202 assigned to him. It was made known to him that he may send a letter explaining why he feels that this action is unjustified.”
When I finally saw it I was amazed that a congregation would allow such a person to remain a MS for 2 years if he was causing so many problems. Perhaps it shows how exceedingly patient and kind they were in their efforts to adjust me. The odd (or not so odd in a dysfunctional group like JW's) was that I was never given any counsel nor did anyone meet with me or quote articles, scriptures or anything.
I was told Monday night of CO's visit that I was deleted, and I asked about the instruction talk I was assigned the next night. I was to still give it was the answer.
My "challenge to the validity" was merely the question "Why?" I asked to know the specifics so I could work to correct my error/mistake/weakness. The only answer I was ever given even after contacting Service Desk was to review the qualifications of elders/MS. "it is all in there" I was told.
I honestly had no problem with being deleted, I only objected to not being told why.
Even though S206 says I was to be deleted as a pioneer too, I actually continued to be one. I guess I was still considered a good recruiter......
Frank75
