Posts by Frank75

20

Recent E-mail Exchange with my Mother

by bavman in

dear greg: just a note to thank you for the card and for remembering us on our anniversary.

we had a very nice 45th anniversary.

the only thing that would have made it better is if you and ***(my sister) could have celebrated with us .

Frank75

Theres only one true God(Jehovah) One Lord. One Bible. One faith. One Babtism. Eph.4: 5.

She missed the thing about "One Hope" or "Calling"! Do the JW's believe and teach only one hope to go along with that 1 baptism and 1 God?

4
One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God

You might want to throw out the question regarding mediator as well since she brought up the 1 Lord etc.

(1 Timothy 2:5) 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,. . .

Ask her if she has "made sure" that the Watchtower teaches that, and what she believes.

Many dubs are not aware of this subtle teaching and are entirely shocked to learn the WT disagrees with Paul!

Try that!

Blondie is right, no matter what you do, be patient and kind. At least your mom is willing to talk. If you stick to what you can prove to her from the bible that she believes, you have a chance to open her eyes.

Frank75

20

Recent E-mail Exchange with my Mother

by bavman in

dear greg: just a note to thank you for the card and for remembering us on our anniversary.

we had a very nice 45th anniversary.

the only thing that would have made it better is if you and ***(my sister) could have celebrated with us .

Frank75

Dear Greg: It is too bad you didn't do more research before you made the decision to dedicate your life an get babtized. That's what we all do . Make sure of all things.

Greg:

Witnesses with scriptures is like a mental patient with a gun. More research? I do not know how old you are or how old you were when you got baptized, but perhaps this will be an eye opener to yur mom.

Baptism is an outward sign of repentance and dedication to God is that, namely dedication to him, not an organization. Show her what the WT says about Baptism.

*** w55 7/1 p. 411 Christian Baptism for the New World Society ***
15 A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit. This shows, among other things, that Christianity is not a denominational affair, that sects have nothing to do with it. “Does the Christ exist divided? Paul was not impaled for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I am thankful I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.”—1 Cor. 1:13-15, NW.

*** w66 10/1 pp. 603-604 Serving with Everlasting Life in View ***15 This is what we mean when we dedicate our lives to Jehovah. We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organization. No, we dedicate ourselves to the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, our Creator, Jehovah God himself. This makes dedication a very personal relationship between us and Jehovah.
Additionally, your mom or parents have never gone on a trip, stayed at a hotel, bought a car or other product that they didn't research well enough and that was well sold to them by someone who withheld information without publishing any of the negatives? I'm sure knowing your family's history you could highlight to her just how silly that judgment of you is!

What good would your research have done? Tell her you researched the total blood ban by the Watchtower many years ago very well! Then they went and watered it down now so that you can take almost 99% of it!

Likewise the "make Sure" comment is taken from Thessalonians. Remind your mom that Paul introduced that expression to "Brothers" who were in danger of "s leep(ing) on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses". So this was to be a constant process not something done once and never revisited! Finally Paul wrote just preceeding that expression, "do not treat prophesying with contempt". Another translation says it best, "Don't suppress the Spirit, and don't stifle those who have a word from the Master. On the other hand, don't be gullible. Check out everything, and keep only what's good. Throw out anything tainted with evil."

Ask her if she has done that herself in obedience to Paul!

Since you wish to do that you have scrutinized some of the prophetic utterances of the WT and would like to share with her what you found!

Frank75

16

Publisher Pioneer Elder CO JC GB and all the titles

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

did you ever feel like these all were like a military chain of command?.

and i think i'm just realizing this, but are females not allowed to give talks, or is that not correct?

if not, i know in scripture (1 timothy) it talks about women not being "teachers" of men, or something similar, but when i think back.....at work, i never hear of the females having ever given talks, i always here about the guys.. if i'm correct, as a female in the wts, did that t you off or were you relieved of not having to deal with it anyway?.

Frank75

As far as giving talks, I found it to be insulting to a woman's intelligence to put on silly skits for the congregation. I don't see any difference because they were still instructing the congregation.

I'll add; Demeaning and degrading!

Frank75

58

Really, What's So Wrong With The Jehovah's Witness Religion To You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is it that bad??

is it worse than fundamentalists of every other sort?

are jws worse than radical muslims?

Frank75

they also used to serve up some meat in due season which I tried but gave me the runs !

Yeah. I hear NVR is giving out his share of "meat in due season" these days too!

Frank75

16

Romans 14 describes law on blood as "conscience matter"?

by M.J. in

romans 14 shows that some jewish christians in rome abstained from meat, while others did not.

apparently there was a bit of a tussle between the two camps.

now the big question is why exactly did some feel they needed to abstain from meat?.

Frank75

It seems very clear that either Paul had never heard of the so-called "apostles' decree" or he didn't regard its contents as authoritative.

Was it a decree? Well Paul was there according to the narrative and it can be easily proved that he did not think so. Perhaps there is still a little Dub earwax blocking a proper hearing of the message.

Could the concluding comments on blood better be described as a footnote to a lengthy debate about the Jewish custom of circumcision? That was the purpose of the gathering to begin with.

Take a look at what Paul did in the very next chapter 16:1

So he arrived at Der´be and also at Lys´tra. And, look! a certain disciple was there by the name of Timothy, the son of a believing Jewish woman but of a Greek father, 2 and he was well reported on by the brothers in Lys´tra and I·co´ni·um. 3 Paul expressed the desire for this man to go out with him, and he took him and circumcised himbecause of the Jews that were in those places,

They had just determined, and Paul had argued for, that this practice wasn't necessary. But yet he goes out and does it to Timothy what seems like the next day. Decree? I would argue not. But that is my opinion.

Look at why he did so, goes back to what James said to the gathering in Jerusalem.

So as to not offend the Jewish majority, both inside and outside of the Christian community.

Advice was take it or leave it opinion.

Frank75

58

Really, What's So Wrong With The Jehovah's Witness Religion To You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is it that bad??

is it worse than fundamentalists of every other sort?

are jws worse than radical muslims?

Frank75

There you go! I am sure there is something edible and worthwhile that you can get out of that apple.

Enjoy!

Frank75

16

Publisher Pioneer Elder CO JC GB and all the titles

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

did you ever feel like these all were like a military chain of command?.

and i think i'm just realizing this, but are females not allowed to give talks, or is that not correct?

if not, i know in scripture (1 timothy) it talks about women not being "teachers" of men, or something similar, but when i think back.....at work, i never hear of the females having ever given talks, i always here about the guys.. if i'm correct, as a female in the wts, did that t you off or were you relieved of not having to deal with it anyway?.

Frank75

The whole organizatioin is much more structured and modelled exactly per any typical worldwide sales company rather than the pattern of the first Christian congregations.

I remember figuring out just before we left that the JW religion had in fact been patterned after First Century Judaism and not Christianity as we were often told.

Frank75

16

Romans 14 describes law on blood as "conscience matter"?

by M.J. in

romans 14 shows that some jewish christians in rome abstained from meat, while others did not.

apparently there was a bit of a tussle between the two camps.

now the big question is why exactly did some feel they needed to abstain from meat?.

Frank75

As for the blood discussion I don't have the reference in front of me right now but in the Law an arrangement was made for allowing a family who found their farm animal in the field already dead to not have to suffer the loss of the meat. They could go ahead and eat the meat but needed to recognize the law on blood by remaining unclean for a time and possibly some other requirement I don't remember exactly. But the point is there was no death penalty involved. On the contrary there was a recognition of the families circumstance and they were not made to suffer the loss.

TTC:

Here is the reference you are talking about.

(Leviticus 17:14-15) . . ." 15 As for any soul that eats a body [already] dead or something torn by a wild beast, whether a native or an alien resident, he must in that case wash his garments and bathe in water and be unclean until the evening; and he must be clean.

Also they were allowed to sell it to avoid the financial loss too.

(Deuteronomy 14:21) 21 "YOU must not eat any body [already] dead. To the alien resident who is inside your gates you may give it, and he must eat it; or there may be a selling of it to a foreigner, because you are a holy people to Jehovah your God.. . .

How would that make sense if the law on animal blood was binding on all mankind descended from Noah?

Leaving the dubs has taught many of us how little we knew of what the bible actually says.

Frank75

16

Publisher Pioneer Elder CO JC GB and all the titles

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

did you ever feel like these all were like a military chain of command?.

and i think i'm just realizing this, but are females not allowed to give talks, or is that not correct?

if not, i know in scripture (1 timothy) it talks about women not being "teachers" of men, or something similar, but when i think back.....at work, i never hear of the females having ever given talks, i always here about the guys.. if i'm correct, as a female in the wts, did that t you off or were you relieved of not having to deal with it anyway?.

Frank75

I didn't think so for a long time. I always felt the dubs were just a "classless" society. cough! snic!

However when I was being removed as an MS once, the CO who was upset that I had sent a letter of complaint to Brooklyn's Service Desk. (bypassing the Canadian branch, they were none to pleased either)

So I furrowed my brow in puzzlement and asked respectfully, "is there something I did wrong?" He actually said, "no comment". I looked behind me as if to look for the 60 Minutes camera crew!

That is when he took out a piece of paper and drew a big triangle. At the top he wrote Jehovah, then Jesus, then the "Faithful slave class", GB & WTB&TS, Zone, District and CO's, Elders, MS and publishers at the bottom. He then drew a line starting from the MS's with a big exagerated curve ending back at the GB & WTB&TS! He then said, "does that seem like a theoacratic way to handle things in the congregation?" I said, "Hmmm, you may have a point there brother. So can I ask you then? Would it also be wrong to bring our concerns to Jehovah at the top?"

You know these guys just make it up as they go along! But as far as the "pyramid" structure chain of command thing goes? That goes back to even the days of RF!

The top flow chart appeared in a Dec 15th 1971 Watchtower. At the next meeting I brought him a photocopy of the above pyramid which shows that a line goes straight from the Ministerial Servants up to the GB. He just lowered his head and walked away.

There was no JC formed to investigate his obvious apostate teachings! LOL

See what all of you faders are missing out on!!

Frank75

381

Were you or someone you know sexually molested by a Jehovah's Witness ?

by flipper in

due to the fact there are about 27,000 members of this religion that are known pedophiles, and the information about it is kept in a secret database file, i wonder how many lurking jw's as well as others are aware of the severity of this problem?

remember, it's 27,000 pedophiles that they know about.

what about the thousands that don't get caught?

Frank75

Still, I was a big 12 year old, she was nine. Lot's of touching and sucking involved.

Dave: It takes some guts to open up about an issue like this. Good for you.

However, I think a lot more of us would be considered child molesters if the definition you give above constitutes sexual molestation. Your being 12 and her 9 is basically 2-4 years difference. 12 is prepubescent and I would think anything that you did was more or less acting out or "playing doctor". Could have led somewhere, but not so bad in itself.

What really defines molestation is the abuse of power that comes from size and age difference. An older teenage Girl that forces her 6 year old nephew to sexual play is pedophilia.

In Canada that is how they define things. For example a 14 year old girl and a 15 or 16 YO boyfriends sexual play is looked on rather benignly however a 17 YO and a 6-9 YO would take on a whole other definition!

As sick and debased as it may sound, a 34 YO who likes to be around 14-17 YO girls is not a pedophile, he rather a Phebophilia, Hebephilia. In some cultures that is still accepted.

There is some good info on the net to define what makes a pedi!

Frank75