Posts by Odrade

33

what type of faith do you REALLY want?

by atheist_R_stupid in

i find that when talking people who say they "used to be a jehovah's witness" they say words that show they have in fact, never been one.

it's like a man that worked for the post office for 30 years in a main major urban hub like chicago or new york... and you ask him, "in your last position, what was your rdo?

" and the man says "whats an rdo?".

Odrade

I've made a deliberate effort to discard JW-sanctioned terminology as part of my personal recovery. I say:

"left the watchtower" instead of "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses"

"church" instead of "kingdom hall"

"door-knocking" or "proselytising" or "evangelizing"

"converted" instead of "learned the truth"

"indoctrination" instead of whatever ridiculous explanation for following the FDS is in the latest WT

"propaganda meeting" instead of Congregation Book Study

"recruitment training" instead of Theocratic Ministry School

"tent revival" instead of Circuit Assembly...

See how that works? I refuse to abide by their terminology.

One last point: Independent Thinking is now a badge of honor.

28

A Mind at War

by cappytan in

right now, i feel like my mind is at war with itself.. on the one side is reason, logic.. on the other is tradition, hope and fear.. reason and logic are challenging life-long beliefs.

they are telling me, "is this any more believable than the story of the lord of the rings?".

certain doctrines of my belief system are crumbling.. my mind still wants to hold on to the belief in a creator, his son jesus and the bible.

cappytan, most people arrive at their core beliefs over a lifetime of small decisions. When we leave the JWs, we get a crash-landing in "what do I really think?" It's okay to be confused, and it's okay to believe one thing today and something completely different tomorrow until you get things somewhat sorted. After awhile, you will find you're no longer deciding foundational things, but fine tuning. For right now though, it can feel a little bit like "what's behind door #2?!"

11

Help with an entrenched family memeber

by budbayview in

jw
friends

wanted to send this to my "active" sister in hopes of awakening her, comments welcome.

she thinks i am a heathen apostate.... losing my religion.

preface.

Odrade

It's beautiful. But if she is a devoted supporter of WT, this is going to be way above her paygrade. What you've written is heady stuff, and while it may perfectly express your passion on belief, if your intent is to open the door to discussion with your sister, you need to figure out what HER passion is on belief.

To do that, you need simplicity. Her spiritual maturity level is similar to a toddler who hasn't yet learned to see grey areas or spot lies. You cannot teach a toddler with a treatise, as lovely as it is.

And yet, your simplicity is threaded through the letter, and that is love. So imagine you are having the conversation with a very intelligent child - who if given enough simple ideas, can develop a complex understanding.

8

Did Guy Pierce Disapprove of All These Changes?

by thedepressedsoul in

i have been wondering lately if guy pierce did not approve of all these changes like jw broadcasting, the new jw kingdom halls and the direction that they are currently moving in.

i know that some changes happened while he was alive but a lot of these changes seemed to be pushed right after his death..

for example, jw broadcasting almost sounds like it was rushed out within 2 months.

Odrade

It was almost as if Guy Pierce wasn’t in favor when one or a few really wanted a JW Broadcasting type thing.

Doubtful. Pierce was always really pro-technology. If anything, if he were involved in that project, it might have been held up because he would want them to "get it right," which would probably have included not using such a boring old drone for the roll-out video.

40

Need advice on a comeback to my wife: when she is in cult mode she says faith without works is dead.

by goingthruthemotions in

so i have gotten into arguements with my wife in the past about this cult.

now a days after reading steve hassan books...i just try and avoid anything jdub with her.

try to keep her in authentic mode..(not sure she really has one).

Odrade

I think this is one of the things that keeps JWs locked in. They have absolutely no comprehension of the concept of Grace. They truly believe that they can never be worth of God's love, but at the same time, God expects them to earn his love - the love that they can never be worthy of, even when they are working hard to earn it. Etc, etc, etc. It's the most pernicious example of circular reasoning, and I believe it derails their ability to think critically.

It's not unique to JWs, this subversion of Grace, most of the high control groups teach the same or similar, that you must prove your devotion and earn your salvation. It's quite incompatible with the concepts of Christ-centered christianity, although wholly in line with Pauline Christianity.

67

Good Netflix shows to watch

by Simon in

in the long winter nights you need some good tv shows to watch while you wait for the eternity between seasons of game of thrones.. we've watched marco polo (pretty good) and have just started watching orange is the new black which is not at all what i imagined (didn't know it was funny!).

house of cards is on the list too as we've heard good things about that.. anyone have any others that are worth seeing?.

Odrade

The Fall with Gillian Anderson. Next 5 episodes are about to drop.

7

JW Doctor mis-Illustrates a Blood Doctrine

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

today i added a new article to my blog addressing an article written by a jw medical doctor in a regional medical journal.

it's part of an initiative giving attention to how licensed medical professionals among jws have dealt with the blood transfusion subject.

what they say, how they say it, and what they don't say are all very telling.

Odrade

Poughkeepsie, NY. Pediatrician, and founder of Center for Bloodless Care at Vassar Med. He seems to have his bonafides. Appears he is a convert, came from a Catholic family, so most likely educated and in practice before converting. Interesting that his practice bio says he's a single dad with two adopted children. Just FYI.

It takes a special kind of mindless devotion to dogma to be a practicing pediatrician and still determined to uphold the ban on blood. Very sad.

22

What if.....the impossible happened?

by sparrowdown in

jw
friends

what if the almighty gb announced that all shunning will cease, and next minute all the people who have shunned you start calling and texting saying "hi, we're baaaack, we can talk to you now!".

.

what would do you do, and how do you react?.

Odrade

I can't see that ever happening in reality, but if it did, there are very few people I'd allow to be a part of my life again, if they came around, and I certainly wouldn't go looking for them. Many of my so-called "friends" when I was in, behaved in horrible ways, completely aside from WT doctrine or policy, and I would never choose them to be friends if I met them now, so a shared history is not enough.

The problems with my family also exist partially outside the realm of shunning, but at least if they would stop that crap, there would be a chance of communication in the future, although I'm 44 years old now and they are in their late 60s, so I question whether it would be a matter of "too little too late."

12

(Knock Knock) Who's there?

by Coded Logic in

if jws knocked on your door what would you say?.

i know jws don't really do "ministry" anymore (just leave special campaign tracts at the door and run away as fast as they can so they don't have to talk to anyone) but if they ever actually tried to have a conversation with me i wonder what i would say.

most likely i'd ask about matthew 4:8 where it says the devil took jesus to the top of an unusually high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world.

Odrade

They came here in July and I told them I was happy to be an EX-JW, and that they needed to add me to the do not call list.

However, in the past, I've brought up disfellowshipping, and how the Prodigal Son was welcomed back IMMEDIATELY, and that if disfellowshipping is LOVE and is supposed to be compared to a loving parent, how many loving parents would spank their children every day for a year, for an infraction that they were sorry about?

I have been piously told that I "just don't get it." Nope, I think I get it very well.

You can't really argue scriptural doctrine with most JWs, because they don't know their own doctrine, they are "proofed" against arguments by rote training. They parrot, instead of truly learning their doctrine. But since they equate WT policy with "Jehovah's loving arrangements," it can be somewhat more effective to equate those policies with loving their own children or small family members.

5

Question about the HLC and medical records

by OrphanCrow in

the hlc was established after i left the jws.

here in canada, the hlc was piloted back in the early 70s and that is when i had a personal encounter with the men in white shirts and shiny black shoes who took away my right to make medical decisions.. i am not very familiar with the internal doings of the hlc, other than that they hold the jw patient's life in their hands.. when the hospital liaison committee becomes involved in a jw patient's health care, what type of information is sent to the watchtower headquarters, and does the watchtower society receive copies of the patient's medical records?

if so, does the society maintain a database/library of historical medical cases that the hlc has been involved in?

Odrade

This is a very good question, because under ordinary circumstances HIPAA, which is a federal protection, would not allow WT access to your health information unless directly authorized. However, if a JW allows access for the HLC, it may be one of those grey areas (like talking to a medical professional who is submitting for insurance reimbursement, which automatically authorizes disclosure of diagnosis and procedures.) So it seems quite likely that allowing the HLC in as a "counselor" would allow sharing of information within their "network," and by extension, WTS.

However, I don't believe the HLC has ever been given the actual medical records, but more like they were present as a more authorized chaplain, able to sit in on (with patient permission) on consultations and directly advise family members on decisions to be made.

Remember that HLC pre-dates HIPAA, so who knows what the situation was prior to '96. FWIW, I don't remember my father ever storing any kind of medical records during the early days of HLC.