by defd 97 Replies latest jw friends
My mom has partaken at the memorial for 50’OD years. Last Thanksgiving I took my mom out for turkey dinner. She was more then happy to go. I was surprised because getting her out of the house would usually require being accompanied by a deputy.
We always had turkey dinner with all the trimmings at our house…growing up. We even had other witnesses over for dinner on occasion. I don’t recall making a fuss about it. No decorations etc. Just food.
plum
Defd, the problem is that there are no Society sponsored celebrations for everyone to enjoy.
There is simply nothing. They imitate the societal structure of the ancient Israelites in their worship, but conveniently leave out all the festivals celebrated.
Fact is, there is not ONE single, special day that Jehovah's Witnesses could look forward to and celebrate it with their families.
Non-witness family members often moan to me, that they never see us - well that's because most "worldly" families get togther on holidays, and as witnesses do not observe holidays, there is no getting together.
I am having the same problems as you are, trust me.
Non-witness family members often moan to me, that they never see us - well that's because most "worldly" families get togther on holidays, and as witnesses do not observe holidays, there is no getting together.
I can't help but suspect that this is the point. What better way to keep you in "the truth" than to makes rules that force you to be constantly surrounded by only those that believe it? If you were regularly meeting with worldly relatives for parties, you would more easily break yourself free from the only-one-way thinking.
I think it's painfully clear what the motive for forbidding these things is when you consider what they DON'T forbid. Make-up, use of the calendar, wedding traditions, wind chimes, pinatas -- all of these things have pagan origins as admitted in the pages of the Watchtower. Why aren't they forbidden, while opportunities to be with your worldly family conveniently are?
We know why.
Dave
Fact is, there is not ONE single, special day that Jehovah's Witnesses could look forward to and celebrate it with their families.
The day Jesus died. I've heard it referenced as a celebration on occasion. The day we get to go and observe a marriage /wedding. That’s if someone in your cong drinks the wine and eats the bread anyway.
oh and...pic-nics
My old cong many moons ago organized ball games between congregations with potluck picnics. They were fun. I don't see much of that sort of thing these days.
plum
Non-witness family members often moan to me, that they never see us - well that's because most "worldly" families get togther on holidays, and as witnesses do not observe holidays, there is no getting together.
I can't help but suspect that this is the point
Almostatheist. You know that may be his concern, but that is really not mine. I really want to do what is right and be a BALANCED Witness. If I can do something Id like to do it. If they are wrong about something I will not follow it. I recently notice that whenever someone mentioned birthday, my 8 yr old would freeze up and get wide eyed and say birthdays are bad.. I know it is my fault cause I taught her that. However as I matured in the truth I realize its not the BIRTHDAY that is bad, it is the rituals and customs that are. So I have been telling my kids that. Now I am trying to figure it out on thanksgiving. I do not want to put UNDUE pressure on my kids at school if its not biblically founded.
Derrick,
I applaud your efforts in following the biblical counsel of whether it's wrong or right to celebrate Thanksgiving. I have a feeling you'll find there isn't much supporting NOT celebrating it other than Watchtowers. JWs always say, "I'm thankful everyday, I don't need a special day for it." Well, are they? They don't celebrate in the same way and they know it.
Being a balanced parent is a great goal. I wish my parents had followed their gut instinct about such matters. We weren't too balanced in much that I remember.
Happy early Thanksgiving to you!
Andi
You know every year for all the holidays they get to decorate and things. I am going to make sure I do not turn my kids into RIGID witness. I will raise them to be witness and serve Jehovah but to be BALANCED
Good for you Derrick!!
Believe me, there is nothing more traumatic to a child than being left out, pointed out, singled out at school for not being able to participate in these activities, especially when there is no good reason for being told not to participate.
I never understood why Thanksgiving was such an issue. In fact I never understood the reasoning behind any of the holiday prohibitions. All I knew was that my mother told me I can't do it and that was that.
I admit I still harbor some bitterness over this.
But your kids will thank you when they are older for allowing them to participate. They won't grow up and hate you or harbor resentment towards you for denying them a childhood.
Too many JWs say that Thanksgiving is a nationalistic holiday but then celebrate it in exactly the same was as non-JWs. My non-JWs relatives found this hypocritical and made them not open to discussion on any other points JW relatives wanted to discuss.
School and Jehovah's Witnesses Brochure sj p. 21 Holidays and Celebrations ***National
HolidaysOther holidays are somewhat different in nature. These are not so universally celebrated, but may be unique to a particular country. For example, there may be national days of thanksgiving. In some places there may also be a certain day set aside to memorialize a nation’s war dead, or a day to remember the birth of a country or certain prominent presidents, rulers or national heroes.
Jehovah’s Witnesses also respectfully refrain from participating in such national holidays. Though we respect the authorities in whatever country we may reside, for conscientious reasons we do not give them what we view as worshipful honors. We remain neutral toward all such celebrations. This is in keeping with Jesus’ words regarding his followers: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."—John 17:16.
***
g76 11/22 pp. 11-13 A National "Day of Thanks"—The Dream and the Reality ***In much of the United States, Thanksgiving Day is the beginning of the Christmas season—a ‘holiday period’ extending through New Year’s Day, January 1. So Thanksgiving (now the fourth Thursday in November) becomes the signal for the commercial world to press for what is called the ‘buying binge.’
Further, for many the day is becoming one for ‘saturating’ the public with sports events. The National Observer told of a man who insisted that his wife quickly feed him during the "half-time" break in the football game. "So after the poor woman had worked many hours preparing the turkey and trimmings, the husband said grace, ate his dinner, and was back in front of the television set—in nine minutes."
While this is an extreme case, the increasing emphasis on sports and commercialistic parades has led more and more people away from any attitude of thankfulness. But how has the "secularizing" of the day, as it is politely called, come about?
It ties in with the entire ‘religious picture’ in North America. The public’s view of most churches and their clergy frequently is one of apathy and disdain. Even as one editorial spoke out against "the void Christian churches failed to fill," it also assailed church leaders who "seemed to prefer to fill their hungry sheep with the most convenient sort of instant political Pablum."
Alongside disillusionment with most American churches stands the reality of a population no longer agricultural. Less than 6 percent are now involved in farming. Since food obviously does not grow in supermarkets and just pop out of plastic containers, North Americans in ever greater numbers find little reason to contemplate a harvest festival.
Of course, for many the holiday is still a time of family reunion. And there remain those who sincerely view this day as one of thanksgiving to God. But with the rising tide of sports, the frequent gluttony and drunkenness, the trend definitely is in another direction. For a growing majority, having a special meal is the extent of "celebrating" Thanksgiving.
In view of its past associations and present reality, those who seek God’s approval obviously have much to think about as this holiday draws near. The Bible’s position on drunkenness and gluttony is well known. (1 Pet. 4:3; Prov. 23:20, 21) But what is the Scriptural view of such a national thanksgiving day?
A
Bible Holiday?Sarah Hale, in campaigning for a national festival, wrote: "Can we not then, following the appointment of Jehovah in the ‘Feast of Weeks,’ or Harvest Festival, establish our yearly Thanksgiving?" To what was she referring? The belief, still held by some, is that observing a ‘thanksgiving day’ is a Bible command, since Jehovah God instituted a harvest festival with the Mosaic law given to the Jews. (Lev. 23:15-17) Actually, all three of Israel’s primary festivals were directly associated with harvests.—Ex. 23:14-17.
However, with the teachings of Jesus Christ came a new view of the prescribed Jewish celebrations. Just before his death, Jesus commanded but one celebration. He required his followers to memorialize his death. This observance was made all the more outstanding by its being the only one.—Luke 22:19, 20.
The apostle Paul, in fact, became concerned about Jewish Christians who still were "scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years." He remarked: "I fear for you, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting you." (Gal. 4:10, 11) Why was Paul so concerned? Because, despite his hard work, these former Jews were clinging to religious observances that God no longer desired. They were missing the "spirit" of Christianity.
The early Christians were admonished to apply the principle found at Ephesians 5:20. In the name of Jesus Christ, they were to ‘give thanks always for all things to their God and Father.’ Yes, an attitude of constant appreciation for God’s provisions and protection was emphasized repeatedly. The words "thanks" and "thanksgiving" are used over forty times in the Christian Greek Scriptures.
On the contrary, the idea of a single day of thanks undoubtedly would have reminded the early Christians of the pagan Romans, who held an annual thanksgiving celebration in December. A writer of the second century noted: "We [Christians] are accused of a lower sacrilege, because we do not celebrate along with you the holidays of the Cæsars in a manner forbidden alike by modesty, decency, and purity."
What, then, is the modern-day Christian likely to conclude as he views this national holiday? Looking at many of the present practices, he may be reminded of Second Corinthians 6:14, where we read: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?"
Naturally, many dedicated Christians will not be working secularly on that day. Some may choose to take advantage of this opportunity to enjoy fellowship with family and friends. Yet, what "spirit" will a Christian manifest? It is true that God created turkeys and other foods, so these are not in themselves objectionable. But undoubtedly one who is a true Christian will want to be careful not to stumble others.
Consider what the apostle Paul says, as recorded in First Corinthians, chapter ten. He reasons that Christians should wisely avoid eating before others a perfectly acceptable food if doing so would stumble them. ‘Respect your brother’s conscience’ is the message.
So on November 25, the declared "day of thanks" in 1976, personal decisions need to be made. Dedicated Christians certainly will not want to convey to others the idea that they believe in one-day-a-year gratitude. Really, should not all who profess Christianity encourage a spontaneous spirit of thanksgiving—from the heart—the year around?
***
w60 11/15 p. 704 Questions from Readers ***However, taking part in holiday parties or celebrations, which are not educational but primarily recreational, is something else. Such holidays as Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year, Valentine’s Day and Easter have their roots in paganism. The Christian Greek Scripture writers do not mention any of such celebrations. Regarding them the words of the apostle Paul apply: "I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God, and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we?" "What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?"—1 Cor. 10:20-22; 2 Cor. 6:15, 16.
Derrick,
I didn't mean to suggest any JW's followed the holiday restrictions for that purpose, only that the restrictions themselves were imposed for that reason. Since the "bible principles" that forbid birthdays are equally applicable to lots of other things, an honest person has to ask why pick on birthdays? (Or thanksgiving, or whatever) One explanation is that all the forbidden things have in common that they are traditionally used to unite families, while the unforbidden things collectively are not.
That doesn't prove anything, but it sure catches my eye.
What did Brooklyn say?
Dave
Defd, you must find a balance, if I had gone with my gut feeling about what I thought a scripture meant instead of just accepting it without question, my family life would have been far happier, my kids would have had a happier childhood im sure.
Do it now while your kids are small, or you will have regrets when they are adults
