by AlmostAtheist 68 Replies latest jw friends
Why does the WTS claim it didn't predict Thee End would come in approximately 1975 when the prediction is printed right in its own literature?
OR
How can an organization really be directly led by the one true infallible God while at the same time claiming it makes mistakes and has New Light?
It depends on the individual JW.
I completely agree.
My son almost died, and we refused to authorize a blood transfusion, even though he would have received one if it became a matter of life or death (court order). A few months after his recovery, I was in service, and the woman at the door brought up JWs and the blood issue. She had several young children wandering around and so she said that she didn't really want to discuss it in depth because of that. The 'sister' I was with mentioned that my son had nearly died but had ultimately not needed blood, even though the doctors said he would. The woman at the door looked at us, silent for a moment, then said, I'm sorry, but that's absurd.
As soon as the words left her lips, I knew that I agreed with her 1000%, and could never, ever return to the WT. Even though I went in service after that, I never spoke at a door again. It was the true beginning of my exit.
GGG
Wow, (((GGG)))!
I agree that a question tailored to the individual JW is best. What is their likely hangup? Score on that. Some of my favorites are the blood issue and the shunning. If I can back up my loaded question with a personal experience, all the better. Anyone can whip out a bible and fling scriptures around. But who can deny your personal experience.
The one that has worked very, very well for me lately, after a bad experience:
"Don't trust the elders with personal information."
My poor JW test subject must agree.
Think about the long term consequences of such a statement. The elders are no longer the pipeline to God, and by extension, the FDS. The poor JW test subject must learn to rely on himself and God alone for big decisions. The consequences can only be good.
Good post, AA!
I would say: "Prove to me that God even exists, without using the Bible since I don't believe in it anyway. I'm not interested in any literature of any kind."
I see it as a way to get them to think about what they were saying, just like I did the community church folks who stopped by. We had a very polite conversation, and in the end, there was nothing they could do to prove their point, and they knew it.
I would also add that the WTS lays guilt trips on the rank and file by saying there is also such thing as "sinning by omission" meaning it would be a sin not to spread "the good news" and if you dont enough you could be sinning by not going out in service.
If that is the case there is a such thing as "lying through omission" by trying to stop people from having a FULL disclosure of what they printed and taught years ago. Just vaguely mentioning a couple of things in the Proclaimer's book isn't what I would consider a full disclosure; so the WTS does not conduct themselves honestly in all things.
Anyone can whip out a bible and fling scriptures around. But who can deny your personal experience.
What jgnat said.
As has also been pointed out, dubs don't react the way normal human beings do to stuff like logic and reason. They are brainwashed, remember? Their thinking faculties aren't firing on all cylinders. Surely y'all remember what that was like?
So, it has to be personal experience, something they can't deny. I'd venture to say many, many dubs are walking around conflicted about the wide gap between WT rhetoric and what they see going on daily at the KH. "Happiest people in the world"? "No one else has love among themselves like we do"? "Elders deserve double honor because they are glorious ones"?
Those proclamations leave plenty of room for doubt, based on each dub's own experience.
Exploit that and you have a chance at reaching the person.
I known quite a few Jehovah’s Witnesses who have doubts and concerns about the Watchtower Society that they are not allowed to talk to each other about. They have found it really useful to have someone understanding, like me, they can talk to in confidence.
I was going home on the subway some weeks ago. While waiting for the train, some lad offered me a folded million dollar bill. Woohoo! On its reverse side had some typical Jesus saves stuff. (The humour of that was obviously lost on him). He came into the car and sat next to me all evangelical. I was a little concerned because the kid was late teens to very early twenties, and that stop we boarded the train on is not one I would recommend to someone of his age, at that time of night, with the appearance of bubble-gum OC America.
I started chatting with the guy, and thanked him for his concern for me, not to have my flesh boiled away, every day for eternity. We spoke a little about the history of religion, and how some of his beliefs were typical 'Christianiti Americana" and wasn't quite what was written or believed back in the day of big JC. He started to make his defence by quoting how Brother So'n'so and Elder This'n'that had told him 'the truth' when he had broached similar questions. I asked him if he had personally seen the evidence and reference. Nope.
I was now at my stop, and left the lad with the sentence: "Never believe what some person or organization tells you to be true, especially if it controls your life, without checking the reference for yourself".
He was a little stunned.
steve
I fill them in that Jerusalem was never destroyed in 607 but 587, and to go to the library and check it out.
Bingo. The Witnesses rely on the "fact" that Jesus returned in 1914 and that these guys were chosen as the F&DS class in 1919. This all relies on the 607 BCE date. Without it, they're far more likely to have their eyes opened and start questioning what else they've been lied to about.
