A reminder for Witnesses who deny this

by gumby 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Schizm

  Watchtower 1989 September 1 p. 19 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium

  " Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil".

  Any of you dubs out there want to refute this?

  Gumby

  The only prople who will survive the end of man's system of self-rule will be those who prove brave enough to refuse the "mark"--which is the number of the 8th King (666). The 8th King (which is NOT the UN) will insist on being viewed as the supreme authority, thereby putting itself above God himself, and all who refuse to comply will be faced with starvation. When that time of "test" arrives, will JWs be the only ones who will refuse to accept the "mark"? With JWs most lilkely taking the lead in such a refusal, it may very well be that any others who wish to also refuse will join in with them, thus becoming JWs themselves during the last days of the 8th King. How likely is it that Christendom's churches as a whole will choose to go against the wishes of a world-government which promises to bring "peace and security" to mankind? Not very likely, in my estimation. However, it's reasonable to expect that a number of individuals who go to Christendom's churches will understand the real issue at stake and won't be so dumb.

  .
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  Gill

  Good morning, Gumby! Wonderful to read you again!!!!

  The reply my parents give to this is 'No! We do not say that only we will survive. The Bible says that only 'We' will survive. It says that 'only those calling on the name of Jehovah, will be saved' and we're the only ones calling on God's name!'

  Apparantly, though other religions may have missionaries, they're the only ones preaching the good news of the kingdom and god's name. So, in their minds they're right and everyone else is 'bird food.'

  I don't like arguing with JWs. It's frustrating. It's like....wrestling with a bad tempered anocanda who's going to eat you any way, whatever you do. They're so stuck in their mind set, that I've finally reached a point of feeling very, very sorry for them.

  And of course, if it says something in the Bible, it must be so. And if the WTBTS says so too, well, it must be from God.
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  fleaman uk

  and the "great crowd,"

  Thats the ultimate ambivalent statement imo....it is an umbrella that covers everything,

  Think about it..only JW,s the anointed AND the great crowd?

  It is about as vague as can be and to my (tiny)mind ,answers nothing at all.
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  TopHat

  I am thinking: Could the WTS and GB be the one that puts it's self above God?
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  AuldSoul

  Schizm, although I am certain it is a lost cause, have you examined Ezekiel 9 and what your organization teaches about that chapter?

  (1) There are two groups: those with the mark (who will be saved) and those without the mark (who will be destroyed)

  (2) The determinant for receiving the mark, according to the WTS, is actively siding with Jehovah; specifically, the mark is dedication and baptism

  (3) Attention is drawn to the belief that age is no determinant

  (4) Everyone without the mark, dies.

  Now, there are difficulties with their interpretation that have never been addressed. For one thing, Jerusalem consistently is either applied to Christendom (if a judgment prophecy) or to Spiritual Israel (if a restoration prophecy) in every other fulfillment. In this case, magically, Jerusalem represents the entire world of ungodly mankind. This is the only place where the WTS interprets Jerusalem that way.

  However, according to the current teachings of your "truthful" organization everyone who is not dedicated and baptized will die, unless their parent is dedicated and baptized; in which case Jehovah gets to decide whether they live or die dependent on whether they could have chosen to side with Jehovah.

  Study it out. Is it sick? Yes. Is it truth? Hell no! Is it "false doctrine?" Yes.

  Gumby, I added that reference from Road to Life to the Wikipedia article last night, under beliefs and doctrines.

  AuldSoul
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  BluesBrother

  Just to show the context and prove Gumby's point

  w89

  9/1 p. 19 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***(c/d rom)

  "Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4) They will make up the "flesh" that Jesus Christ said would be saved through the worst tribulation of all human history. As it was in the days of Noah, said Jesus, so it would be in the day when He would be revealed. Inside the ark that took many years of organized effort to complete, only eight human souls survived the global Deluge. They survived as a united family group. (Matthew 24:22, 37-39; Luke 17:26-30) Noah’s wife corresponds to the bride of Christ, and his sons and daughters-in-law to Jesus’ present-day "other sheep," who have grown into an increasing great crowd, the final proportions of which we do not now know. (John 10:16) For survival into the Millennium under the Greater Noah, Jesus Christ, they have to remain organized with the anointed remnant, "the chosen ones" on account of whom the days of the "great tribulation" will be cut short.—Matthew 24:21, 22."

  I have had the same experience in discussions with family, after all they are not sadists who want people to suffer. I find most of them mentally opt out of this hard facet of the teaching. The WT confuses it sometimes by stating that "Only God ,or is it Jesus? , can judge. And judging takes place in the future so the question may be open" . Nevertheless everybody over 3 years old in the Congo knows that you have to be "In the Truth" if you want to get through Armageddon. That is of course what spurs them on in the Ministry, how else could it be a "Lifesaving work"

  There is also the belief, based on scraps of verses from Ezekiel and Revelation, that at the final day the whole world will be an armed camp under totalitarian government. The people will have gone "mad" in their worship of that state and will be gunning down any righteous person who stood apart from it.."So you see, God will just have to kill them!"
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  LittleToe

  Doug:Good to see ya, and in such fine form, too

  YALDAH:
  What a lifeless, works-based, religion you present. Do you have any room in there for actually loving God, alongside all those rules and regulations?

  Gumby:
  Most exclusive groups have the same attitude, be it JWs, Mormons, Muslims or Fundamentalist "Christian" groups. It seems a far stretch from Jesus' words "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest...", etc.
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  upside/down

  Nice...
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  jstalin

  Double Edge said:

  That's been my experience. I've never been a dub, but when I asked my dubbie friend that question, their answer was "only Jehovah knows people's heart".... I was left with, "oookay... and that means......?" then they would "tap dance" around the question for the next several minutes. Go figure.... just say I'm worm food and be done with it.

  My response would be "can one be saved outside of the organization?" The statement that only Jehovah knows implies that one can be saved outside of the organization. It says that it isn't necessarily true that only dubs will be saved.
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  gumby

  Schizm,

  Some Churches teach that the "kingdom" is in a person's heart. In contrast, the WTS preaches about a Kingdom (a heavenly government) that will rule the earth for 1000 years under the headship of Christ.

  Schizm.....you have Watchtower poo poo all over you .....doncha?

  You ( just like the WTBTS)...love to take minority veiwpoints and hold them up against the mighty Organisation of Jehovahs Witnesses to downplay christendom. I got news for ya. Christendom also believes in 1000 year reign of christ on earth. They also believe Jesus kingdom is a heavenly one in which his bride is a part of. They also believe in what Jesus taught concerning their final destination as being with him in the heavens......along with the 1000 reign of his on earth.

  If you wanna compare the oddities of both groups, dubs vs. christendom, ....then rehash for yourself all the bullshit the Organisation teaches concerning the Great Crowd and the annointed, the 1935 date, and all the other non-scriptural baloney they barf outta their big arrogant mouths.

  Gill ......I liked your anaconda illustration

  Blues Bro.....thanks for the documentation on the article

  Gumby