Ritsfield Victory!

by silentlambs 115 Replies latest watchtower scandals

jurs

Thanks to Silent Lambs for posting the update on Erica. I have been away from my computer and I wondered what the out come was. I believe that awhile back it was mentioned that at another court hearing Erica didn't have many people sitting in the coutroom to support her. Did she have more support this time ? I'm so glad that he was found guilty.
jurs
outnfree

jurs,
I heard that there were 21 people who showed up to support Erica this time, and lots of cards & flowers.
I just LOVE the caring community that this DB actually is, don't you?!
outnfree
Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
Francois

Damn, what a thread. Mommy in a response to Dana up the thread a way, you state that some perspective of hers must be "in her head." I don't know if you're aware of it, but virtually ALL child abusers when confronted state that the abuse they're being confronted with is just the abusee's "imagination." This is invalidating, marginalizing, and exculpatory. When anyone uses that kind of approach later in life, it pushes buttons all over the place. It really does take a lot of sensistivity to speak to an adult survivor and not step on toes.
I'm 56 years old and was raised in an utterly dysfunctional home. My father was a drunken, loud, threatening, semi-illiterate ass hole. He ruled by intimidation. No one knew what microscopic infraction was going to set him off - or even if an infraction was needed. Sometime he exploded for no reason at all. He would even get furious at inantimate objects like, say, a hammer. And would throw it across a room. I saw him get angry at a wrench once and he picked up a ten pound sledge hammer and beat the wrench with it. No kidding.
I've got most of my "father" buttons disconnected. However a few remain. And it's not a good idea to even get close to, much less press, one of my father buttons. The sensitivity that remains, all these years later, is truly amazing. And the intensity of my reactions surprises even me. Just be careful is all I'm saying. The way you address Dana really is over the top.
Francois
waiting

Hey 'swa,
You're thoughts about dysfunction made me chuckle - remember, I am one of those victims/survivors - so I can say that.
When this happened, however, I didn't chuckle. My current of 20 years husband was a line mechanic for years, has built and raced hot rods, etc. In other words, he knows the "innards" of cars.
I usually drive on a trip, so he can relax/read and tell me how to drive better. Well, at night, I would click on the brights in spots and then click them off asap. He asked me why I just didn't leave them on because it was a dark road? I said, quite irritated, that "You TOLD me to not leave them on because it'll wear down the battery!" He just looked at me strangely and said "I never said that. Years ago, it's true, it might have wore down the battery, but not with today's engineering." Being a Car Man, I instinctively knew he was telling me the truth.
We just looked at each other (I continued to drive - tells a little about my driving ability, eh?) and we both realized at the same time - I was hearing in my head my father's words - but I truly believed they were my husband's words. Somehow, they were all intertwined in my mind & I didn't know what was memory vs present.
This was 10 yrs into our marriage. I've had therapy and it doesn't happen so much now. I really don't actively remember hardly any words of my father - but I don't think I enmesh them with my husband's now.
I'm sure you realize that this enmeshing goes over to all parts of a person's life. Much the same as "trigger" words. Damn, I used to "trigger" all over the place. What people fail to realize is that for a victim/survivor - being "triggered" is NEVER pleasant. Always either pain/fear/anger or all of them at once (probably more emotions too). Sometimes within seconds and more powerful than anything in real time. Like an explosion or meltdown.
The mind is quite exquisite when it demands our immediate attention.
But when it has our attention, we usually can't respond rationally to those around us.
Ahhhh, childhood.
waiting
ZazuWitts

Waiting,
A most interesting post re transference of your father's 'high beam on/off" and thinking that your husband was the original source of this, now dated and invalid rule I, too, recall that as being the standard during my growing up years - and have always done the 'on, quickly off' - appreciate the new, for me, info - an will refrain...just makes sense, with newer cars and technology.

Thankfully, I was never sexually molested or abused. However, my mother was quite the physical abuser. It took little, or even nothing to set her off.
I will say, that when she became a JW, the physical abuse diminished significantly. But, perhaps, just because I was getting older (11). However, interesting enough, she then turned to a frequent pattern of verbal abuse. Constant, snide insults, name calling...'stupid', 'ignorant' "dummie'and very vulgar language, all contained within the walls of our home.
Recently, I was visiting at a hospital.
At some point, I went outside to stretch and walk around a little. To my chagrin, there was a woman on the patio, shouting vile and vulgar language to her, about 8-9, year old daughter. At that point, I could only see the forlorn look on the child's face.
When the mother straightened (she had been stooped down, directly in the girl's face) - she turned, and my breath was taken away temporarily. As I looked at her, I ACTUALLY SAW my own mother's face for several seconds...but it seemed like an eternity!
The woman didn't physically resemble my mother at all. You are so right...it is interesting what the mind can superimpose regarding our past.
gladiamout

Boy, Wendy( mommy)!!!!!!!!! You had better hope Dana is a mild person because what you said to her was waaaaaaay off base any one would get defensive if they were lumped together with a ped!!!!!!!!! I hope she never finds out where you live she might pop you in the nose! You really need to think about her feelings before you peck out your answer.
waiting

Hey Zazu,
I read of a study done on Death Row inmates - as to their childhood experiences. It was expected that all would be incest/violence victims. Not true. All were not incest victims - all of them were violence victims, however. That was the common denominator. Violence in childhood doesn't always translate into a violent adult - but it'll leave it's mark, one way or another.
As for verbal abuse? We, as adults, know what it does to a marriage or friendship. For some reason, we don't seem to get it with our kids though - like it doesn't really count.
Lord knows, I'm not innocent of it - but at least that's not one of the major gripes of my kids. (Making them do yardwork in exchange for shopping with my money is still Major, however.)
I'm sorry that your childhood was crummy sometimes. In or out of the WTBTS, it seems so common.
But look how good you ended up, woman! And it sure wasn't Larc's doing - your doin' is why he ended up so good! And I'm sure he'll agree with me on this one - as opposed to the other times he doesn't agree with me.
waiting
mommy

WOW!
I have not said anything in this thread I have not said before on other threads. I am amazed at the jumping to conclusions, and threats of violence that some are taking. First of all, has anyone read what I wrote? I have often asked other posters to put themselves in someone elses shoes, why is Safe, so upset I asked her too? Actually my original comment was
Congrats Erica!
I am so glad that Bill could be with her through out the trial. I am happy that this man will be sentenced, but I am not in agreement that he should be put away forever. Of course I do not know the whole story. Surely we have moved past the judmental attitude of the org, and realize now that people make mistakes, and can change...haven't we?
wendy(unsettled, by a few of your comments)
This was before Safe even made a comment here. The following is her reply
Wendy, as a comment on your post, many, if not most, pedophiles are considered to not be good candidates for rehabilitation by the mental health community. While I agree with you that we need to give up our judgemental WTS attitudes, and lean towards being forgiving wherever possible, I also think that a person who is likely to prey on innocent children needs to be locked up. And I'm afraid, perhaps due to my own childhood experiences, that I have no sympathy for a person who has hurt a child in this manner. I echo my sister...I hope in prison he learns what it feels like to be powerless and forced to participate in sexual acts that he would not otherwise choose to be a part of.
I am in agreement with her comments as you will see in the following reply
Safe,
I was in agreement with his being put behind bars. What I am not in agreement with is people feeling he should be put away forever. I also stated I do not know all of the facts of the case. There have been times I have heard of pedophiles who are permantly incarcerated, and I have agreed with that decision.
The judemental attitude I am speaking of is apparent in a few replies, including your sisters. If have ever made a mistake in your life, perhaps putting your own selfish feelings before anothers, and want forgiveness for this. Maybe you can understand what I am talking about. It is part of being human, sick as it may seem to others, but most on this planet live and learn. The rest will get the punishment they deserve. If this is repeated attacks on a child and life in prison, so be it.
wendy
I am simply saying that if she had ever made a mistake in her life, then she may want forgiveness, or a chance to pay back the damage she had done herself. It is a place I have been before and willingly admit to. It is also something I have asked others on sensitive subjects as well, including the death penalty which also is a touchy, highly charged issue. Her reply is as follows
I confess to being a bit confused...are you seriously comparing me to a pedophile? Someone who deliberately preys on innocent children? And did you not read my response regarding the lack of effective rehabilitation of pedophiles?
Well...whatever. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
Dana
This bothered me so much I initiated a private conversation with Dana and apologized to her for her jumping to conclusions. And she told me she understood what I was saying. If she has a personal issue going on, I would be the last to bring it in the public forum. I have been very upset in the past about others doing this, and would never take personal info and take it public. A few other posters were upset about my comments and not aware that Dana and I spoke so I replied
Hey all
First of all I am in no way taking the side of the child molester, please read what I wrote again
quote:
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I was in agreement with his being put behind bars. What I am not in agreement with is people feeling he should be put away forever. I also stated I do not know all of the facts of the case. There have been times I have heard of pedophiles who are permantly incarcerated, and I have agreed with that decision
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When I mentioned a mistake, I was not referring to pedophiles, but trying to get one on one with Safe. No I was not referring to her being a pedophile, just bringing it closer to home for her. People do things that are purely selfish that hurt others. They may look back and see what an awful thing that they had done, and never do it again, others continue to do thing that hurt others and that are legally, morally wrong. These are two different types of cases, and to lump them together is wrong.
I have always been the kind of person who gives the benefit of the doubt. I have been critisized for it, but I also have met some wonderful people that others do not give the time of day. I appreciate Waiting providing stats in this area, I was just speaking from my heart.
wendy
OK, where in this post did I say that Dana did and awful thing? I never mentioned that Dana did anything wrong. But, she continued to jump the gun
Wendy,
I thought after our conversation yesterday that we had reached an understanding. I appreciated your point that you were not comparing me to a pedophile. But your comments today blow my mind
quote:
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When I mentioned a mistake, I was not referring to pedophiles, but trying to get one on one with Safe. No I was not referring to her being a pedophile, just bringing it closer to home for her. People do things that are purely selfish that hurt others
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What on earth gives you the idea that repeatedly bringing up something recent in my personal life that has caused much pain and anguish for me as well as other people has anything whatsoever to do with the horrors of being sexually abused?! And you want to bring pedophilia 'closer to home' for me??! There is no way in hell that you could! Other people have taken care of that already Wendy, thanks anyway. You keep saying you don't want to compare the two and yet you still bring them up together. LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR: I do not need a lesson from you in morality, selfishness, the 'right' perspective to take on pedophiles...or anything else that comes to mind. You have interesting standards of forgiveness. I'm done. This is the last post I make on this thread.
Dana
I am still scratching my head trying to figure out where I brought up her personal life. Nope, still don't see it. I was talking one on one with a poster, not asking for a confession, just asking her to be human for a sec.
Dana,
Yet again you misunderstood me. I took time yesterday to personally talk to you about it. And today, you still jumped the gun. I am not making myself clear. But, I feel that unlike yesterday I will not apologize for your misunderstanding.
Whatever you feel I am trying to say, may perhaps be in you head. I am just saying put yourself in someone elses shoes. Personalize it, not pedophile but mistakes(which we all have defined as not a mistake) I did not bring up your personal life...I just said personalize it. Please take a deep breath before posting in the future, and do not be so quick to jump the gun, that is a sign of a guilty conscience.
wendy
That message speaks for itself. As far as the guilty conscience goes, I winked afterward. It was meant to be a funny. Obviously her sister did not feel so, because I get the following reply from her
Wendy,
Your lame attempts to justify your words here toward Dana are just that...lame. You obviously have a personal issue you would like to address with Dana. May I suggest you either do that in a personal email or IM, or even better, since you DON'T KNOW ALL THE FACTS in this case either...maybe mind your own business?
I thought you had gotten past your judgemantalism and borg mentality. Apparently you haven't. The purpose of this thread is about Erica, and the triumph of her trial, a pedophile being safely put behind bars so no more children will be harmed by him. This thread is not about Dana, and what you THINK you know. It's nice to see you think you are worthy to set yourself up in judgement over her as to what "mistakes" she may have made in her life that might cause her to have a guilty conscience. Gee, I'm so glad that you are in such a morally superior place in your life. Maybe before you go on making your sly little references and innuendos, you might want to realize that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And let the rest of us continue to celebrate Erica's victory.
Again, I am wondering where I mentioned a personal conflict that Dana is going through. And as far as letting everyone celebrate GO FOR IT! I just hate that those of you are twisting what I am saying and not understanding me. I really regret that Dana cannot open her eyes, and read what I wrote. Perhaps I did hit the nail on the head, and she is experiencing a personal conflict that is running havoc with her emotions/conscience.
If that is the case I am sorry I touched such a raw nerve. I would not want my mistakes rubbed in my nose either. Just as I would not want someone who did not have all the facts of the case wish me to prison forever over a crime I commited.
wendy
In a controversy the instant we feel anger, we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
MadApostate

Wendy:
All this could have been avoided if you had simply gone along with the crowd, and also "cast your stone" at the abuser.
No, you had the audacity to be objective, and point out that this victimizer was probably once a victim of abuse himself. Who cares that his life was likely ruined many years before he repeated the cycle. Why show sympathy and understanding for such.
Cast your stone, and satisfy the bloodlust of your friends.
Primitive, aren't we?
think41self

Wendy,
I am going to try this one more time. Denial seems to be something you are still struggling with.
You said "I have often asked other posters to put themselves in someone else's shoes, why is Safe, so upset I asked her too?" Because of the subject matter of the thread Wendy. You do NOT ask a former abuse victim, which you WERE aware of, to put themselves in the place of the abuser to try to understand their reasoning or thinking!!! Come on! That one is so obvious everyone else can see it. Why can't you?
THEN you said, in an attempt to justify your earlier comments, that you were just trying to "get one on one with Safe...just bringing it closer to home for her". Gee Wendy, do you think maybe this is where Dana got the idea you were referring to the personal matters you talked about in IM? Everyone else got that impression, why didn't you?
Then, the icing on the cake, you said " Do not be so quick to jump the gun, that is a sign of a guilty conscience." It doesn't matter if you put a little wink behind it Wendy(that is just passive aggressive behavior) your intent to Dana was AGAIN obvious that you were referring to personal matters. If you can't(or won't) see that, then you are not the reasonable person I thought you to be, and we will just have to give up trying to understand each other on this topic.
Tracy

Ritsfield Victory!

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