Ritsfield Victory! (page 7)

Tina

(((((((billy)))))))))))
Thanks for another great post hun!!! ANother point here.
As regards to a certain type of molester(the ones that go after non-related boys and girls) Ken Lanning of the FBI stated;"Such molesters are the most persistent and prolific child molesters known to the criminal justice system.Depending on how you define molestation,they can easily have hundreds if not thousands of victims in a lifetime."

No 'mistakes' here. But an enduring persistent pattern of criminal sexual behavior. Forgiveness and judgemental? I think not.....
Thanks again billy for the insights! luv,T

((((((outnfree)))))))))))) Thanks for your great example of activism! I'm following your lead and getting some things printed up to distribute! WTG!! luv ya,Tina

waiting

Hey OutnFree,

I notice your e-mail is open, waiting. If you would like me to forward the scan, please let me know here (or should we open another thread?).

I think your idea of a new thread with your input is an excellent idea. Shamelessly excellent, btw. Thank you - and please feel free to use my e-mail.

About Molesters

On Randy Watter's site on Abuse Among Jehovah's Witnesses - there's a whole section on different types of child abusers. Tina's stated that among a particular kind of abuser - the chance of re-offending is great, into the hundreds of victims.

But not all offenders fit this particular profile - as I quoted from Randy's site a couple of weeks ago (btw, it wasn't Randy's information - but a study done by a professional groups of doctors.) Not all abusers of every kind keep abusing children in the hundreds for the rest of their lives. Some do - some don't - depends on the kind of abuser the person is.

To say all murderers are the same is "over-kill". So the law breaks them down to First, Second, Third, Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, etc. The law breaks down child abusers, pedophiles somewhat similarily.

Hey Billygoat

You simply cannot ask victims of abuse or people who have loved ones that have experienced abuse to NOT be emotional about it.
Unless you have personally experienced someone of an authority figure, pulling on your clothes, forcing kisses onto your mouth, breathing their hot breath onto your neck, touching your genitals, forcing their bodily fluids into you, and THEN telling you to keep it a secret - you have no right to call any of this issue "sick".

From what authority did this quote originate? I think it's open to different opinions.

Will wait for your response. Thanks.

waiting

Quote: In 1999 Margaret Alexander, Ph.D. (Oshkosh, Wis. Correctional Facility) examined no less than 424 studies. After eliminating most of them because they were poorly done she presented an analysis of the remaining 79studies covering 10, 988 offenders with some being followed as long as ten years post treatment. (Sexual Abuse; A Journal of Research and Treatment, 11(2) ) Here are some of her findings.

Over all, treated offenders reoffended at a rate of 11%, untreated at 17.6%
True incest offenders have lower reoffense rates than other child molesters. (5.3% with 5-year follow-up without treatment, no recidivism with treatment, compares to 17.8% treated and 25% untreated for non-incestuous child molesters.)
When subjects were followed for as long as ten years, the "treatment effect" weakened over time, but even in the tenth year, treated offenders reoffended less untreated men.
Men treated before 1980 (more traditional methods) reoffended at a rate of 12.8%. while men treated after 1980 (present day methods) reoffended at 7.4% (1993 data – not included in article)
Also in 1999, Grossman, Martis and Fichtner presented an analysis of Medline literature and concluded that offenders treated with anti-androgen and / or cognitive-behavioral therapy showed a robust treatment effect in the neighborhood of 30%. (Psychiatric Services, 50(3)

.. http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/index.htm
Sexual Abuse and Child Abuse Among Jehovah's Witnesses
Subheading: Abuse
Subject: SEX OFFENDER TREATMENT ..DOES IT WORK? IS IT WORTH IT?

**************

I'm not defending, I am an incest survivor of a man who was gravely violent. I also don't believe that the vast majority of molesters were like my father. I know some are......but it's not valid to assume that *all* child molesters have the same profile and/or perversions.

Wendy's (mommy) posts are just the other side of the coin.

waiting

Tina

Hi waiting,
You're correct. Not all peds have the same profile.
As I mentioned in my above post,some are prolific offenders with many many victims.
Some may have just a few but molest them hundreds of times.
A few other types are pederasts and ephebophiles.
One always hopes that treatment can be succesful and reduce recidivism. A 30% treatment effect still doesn't mean they these won't relapse and re-offend.
I understand where you're coming from tho.
There's a really weird subset called pansexuals-doesnt matter who what age that also abuse kids.
Incest doesn't have a high reporting rate. Secrets in the family and all that stuff.
And then there are women who sexually abuse,that's been starting to come to the fore lately.
Not arguing here at all,I agree with your post. Thanks for the stats etc. warm regards,Tina

waiting

Hey Tina,

Thanks for the post - I was not intending to argue with anyone - but black/white tends to be in this issue. I suppose because it's so emotionally charged.

That's why I questioned the quote about not being able to speak about it without emotions - such as a supercharged situation. But unless we learn to speak about it as it is - a large black/grey/white issue, we won't learn to see all sides, without large scale emotions.

The problems with emotions is that people who've not been through this tend to dismiss the victims/survivors for being "too emotional", not subjective, unable to "discuss the issues." They tend to take the "black" side. The emotional victims, if too emotional, are seen as the "white" side.

Perhaps a greying of the issues, being middle of the road allows a person to try and see not just "both" sides - but the many sides of the horror of child abuse.

Also, while in the grey area, we don't tend to dismiss either black/white side. I know it's hard for me, I jumped on a poster a couple of weeks back on the issue of spousal abuse. I knew I was doing it - but didn't know how to water down my posts - or I didn't want to.

Hard issues with many sides, many victims.

waiting

Tina

Hi waiting,
Ijust added that cuz I didn't want you to think I was being agrumentative is all :>
Iagree,it's a really tough issue and difficult at times to remain objective. I try to keep a 'global' view,all sides. And it's really challenging.I do understand as it affects just about every aspect of one's life. Thanks for understanding and saying so well! warm regards,T

mommy

Hey all
First of all I am in no way taking the side of the child molester, please read what I wrote again

I was in agreement with his being put behind bars. What I am not in agreement with is people feeling he should be put away forever. I also stated I do not know all of the facts of the case. There have been times I have heard of pedophiles who are permantly incarcerated, and I have agreed with that decision

When I mentioned a mistake, I was not referring to pedophiles, but trying to get one on one with Safe. No I was not referring to her being a pedophile, just bringing it closer to home for her. People do things that are purely selfish that hurt others. They may look back and see what an awful thing that they had done, and never do it again, others continue to do thing that hurt others and that are legally, morally wrong. These are two different types of cases, and to lump them together is wrong.

I have always been the kind of person who gives the benefit of the doubt. I have been critisized for it, but I also have met some wonderful people that others do not give the time of day. I appreciate Waiting providing stats in this area, I was just speaking from my heart.
wendy

In a controversy the instant we feel anger, we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

Billygoat

Hi waiting,

I guess the "authority" that you're asking about is my own authority from my personal experience. Having had the experience that I've had, it's very difficult when someone tells me to "get over it" or to "grow up" and "move beyond" the rape. Yes, I've been working to do that, but I think it totally unfair for someone to ask someone to NOT get emotionally charged when they haven't experienced it themselves.

I agree, it probably is open to opinions. That is why I gave mine. Why do you ask?

Andi

gladiamout

Well the way i feel about it is if they do it once they should never have another chance to do it to another child! They should be locked up for life someone has to protect the children. Wendy I'm sure if it were one of your children you would personally cut off his balls if you got the chance! They don't deserve another chance the risks to our children are to high!

Billygoat

gladiamout,

I agree with you. I think if they've done it once, they'll do it again. Lock 'em up before they have the chance to harm another soul. But that's just my opinion. That's why in these type of situations, I always ask:

Are you a victim of rape or molestation? Do you have a loved one that was a victim of rape or a molester? If the answer is no to both of those questions, then you don't have much experience to go off of to make ANY judgement call. It's the parents that give the pedophiles second chances that are leaving their kids open to be victims themselves. Many times they realize things all too late.

Thanks for your post!

Andi

Ritsfield Victory!

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