JW Kids Leave the Organization: Facts

by Maximus 141 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Maximus,

  excellent topic, very good points.

  It is true, the percentages are similar in this part of
  Western Europe, with figure as high as 70-75% !

  Many more are in the process of leaving or drifting away,
  i.e. Germany, Belgium, etc.

  I do see that many agree with what you've written...
  it is a FACT !

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  To joelbear: To have the true figures count first the
  TOTAL of bapt. in the last 10,15, 20years and then...
  tell me about the difference. (I did post all the
  figures sometime ago).
• 

  Reese

  Why do JW kids leave??? BECAUSE WE FINALLY GREW BACK BONES! GOOD LUCK TO ALL WHO HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED THAT FEELING YET!

  I'm new here, good to see all of you EX'S!!!! Love you all!!!!!!!! Reese
• 

  Nicodemus

  Maximus,

  I appreciate your comments very much. And, here's a related topic that likely deserves its own separate thread:

  The needs (or the good) of the INDIVIDUAL vs. the needs (or the good) of the ORGANIZATION

  Really, that's the basic foundation of the whole child molestation issue, isn't it? The organization is not the molester, the blame is ultimately with that individual. However, the question is: Who gets protected first, the child or the organization?

  Re: your comment about older COs and DOs and younger Service Dept. men. I find it interesting that, from a "big picture" perspective, possibly (I use that word both carefully and intentionally) the younger man is better qualified in some areas. Even in "the world" it happens that way at times, when one has a secular boss who is younger than he or she is.

  What I find sad, though, is what I alluded to earlier, and what I think you were picking up on. The older man may have never had the opportunity to develop himself the way the younger man did. He may have been far too busy busting his tail looking out for "Kingdom interests" to have ever become a truly rounded person in his own right. And, by "truly rounded," I am not implying any personal defect, I am simply meaning it in the sense of being exposed to practices, theories and ideas found outside the limited thinking of the organization.

  And that's the foundational issue. If the organization looks as its members simply in terms of "what can you do for us?," than by definition it is not looking out for their interests.

  I actually think this is one of the inherent problems with infusing Christianity with a lot of organization. Not that such is bad in and of itself, often things are accomplished that never could have been otherwise.

  However, when the organization becomes a living, breathing entity which itself needs to be satisfied, such conflicts occur.
• 

  normie67

  Maximus
  Just curious where can I read your History with the Borg!!! As still an "active" witness sorting and sifting thru all this, just curious your back ground!!! I have "lurked" on here for sometime, but being very cautious so as not be caught by my active JW wife!!
  So posting replies and what not is difficult!!

  Thanks

  normie
• 

  Maximus

  Nicodemus,

  Couple what you have said with the GB inability to view children for what they are rather than as little adults with 'foolishness bound up in their heart.'

  Here's a key element missing in their badly flawed child abuse policy: Failure to see first and foremost the need to protect a vulnerable CHILD not protect the organization or some elder with years of service.

  Light will eventually flash from the temple, to the effect that Romans 13 is seen to supersede the two-witness rule, that Caesar has an interest in these cases whose Authority must be considered. We're already seeing that in the PR release that speaks about the "absolute right" which "no one should interfere with" for the family to report charges.

  As to organization, here's a quotation from a textbook:

  Sociologists have long pointed out the inherent
  tendency of institutions to develop increasingly complex
  structures. The division of labor, established initially to
  improve efficiency, ends by fragmenting interpersonal, human
  connections. Relationships are replaced by communication
  channels and chains of command, and before you know it you have
  huge, faceless bureaucracies where no one takes responsibility
  and the quality of the enterprise -- whatever it is -- steadily
  deteriorates.

  Sound familiar?

  Maximus
• 

  joelbear

  If 86% of kids are leaving. That means 14% are staying. The growth rates are 50% for the last 10 years. That means that witnesses are having a hell of a lot more kids than the average person or that most people that are baptized aren't witness kids. Also, we are only talking about active witnesses as counted by the Watchtower. The news report posted in the news section indicates about 1% of Americans identify as Jehovah's Witnesses, that is about 3 million just in the US. So even though they are inactive, 2 million people still adhere to the beliefs enough to identify it as their religious affiliation.

  Methinks the problems of the Watchtower are exaggerated. There methodology clearly produces growth, this is an undisputed fact. The number of issues of the Watchtower that are produced has also risen dramatically, again indicating a successful business plan. Every business has to allow for a certain percentage of customer seepage.

  People don't become witnesses or stay witnesses for very long because they believe the end is near. People become and stay witnesses because it matches their goals for spirituality and their goals to socialize with people of like mind.

  My opinions are just that, opinions, but I don't think anyone here has statistically significant enough information to draw conclusions as to what attracts, keeps or loses, Jehovah's Witnesses. It would be a fascinating sociological study, but we are just guessing based on our personal feelings and those of others we have been exposed to.

  I doubt seriously that many leave strictly out of doctrinal disagreements, no matter what they say. Most people leave because the witnesses no longer fulfill their spiritual needs (which are more complicated than a set of beliefs) or their social needs (including career and education goals, marital or partnership desires, etc.).

  The Watchtower Society is what it is. It markets itself to a very specific market which will always be a small market, but look how much money it makes with this structure. They know that they will never be The Catholic Church (Citicorp or Walmart) so they happily settle for being who they are (First National Bank of Metropolis or Smith's Department store).

  I emphasize this because the way to get people out is to teach them how to live, not pick pick pick at this or that doctrine or prophecy, etc. That is all mostly irrelevant and surface. The way they get people and keep them is they take away their ability to live or even want to live fully in the short term.

  Even the pedophilia thing will go right over 95% of their heads as already shown by the support the pedophiles are getting at the local congregational level. How many less Catholics are there after years of abuse?

  Besides, most witnesses who might leave because of doctrine or false prophecy or scandal still don't know how to live happily. I see this in my own family which has 16 people. 1 Dfed, 2 active 13 inactive or children of inactive. The inactive ones would still say they are Jehovah's Witnesses and even though they don't go to meetings they have no life plan, they DON'T KNOW HOW TO LIVE.

  I of course wish you all peace, but I think you are barking up the wrong trees.

  Hugs

  Joel
• 

  larc

  Joel,

  A couple of comments. Their growth rate for the last three years in 23 developed countries has been zero. (See the freeminds site for the data, also a thread I started months ago, JW decline.) Therfore the numbers Maximas gave are realistic. He did not say 88% leave. He said that about 60% leave for good and another 28% leave but come back for social reasons.

  As far as why people leave: I left for purely doctrinal reasons, i.e., failed prophecy.
• 

  Anchor

  <Methinks the problems of the Watchtower are exaggerated. There methodology clearly produces growth, this is an undisputed fact.>

  No, Larc is correct on this. Their growth has been dismal, and insiders know it all too well. As to the child abuse issue going over the heads of 95% of the Witness audience for Dateline, that could be true because they will want to hear only good things and drown out the bad.

  The American public will see a vastly different picture of what is not just your Aunt Matilda's kookie religion that wakes you up by a knock on the door once in awhile. I bet it will be put up on Internet sites as an accessible program too. Can you hear Jay Leno talking about JW pedos? Or other late night show hosts?

  There are huge problems in Germany and France right now, and you can forget growth in Japan, once a shining example to the rest of the world in terms of evangelistic growth. They are banking on the Ministerial Training Schools coming up to regroup and retrench.

  Anchor
• 

  TMS

  Joel:

  Good points. Many young people are leaving, but no where near 86%!

  Java:

  "Speaking of Brooklyn, does anyone know how many exit the Tower when leaving Bethel? I imagine the percentage is high, perhaps as high as exiting children. If the Society can't keep their own from jumping ship, it seems ridiculous and hyprcritical offering parents advice on a topic they fail at miserably."

  This is so true. Many former Bethelites are among the most disillusioned. Seeing that it is an organization of men destroyed their fantasy of a "faithful and discreet slave".

  I agree with most of what has been said on this thread, except that the figures are greatly exaggerated.

  TMS
• 

  Anchor

  < agree with most of what has been said on this thread, except that the figures are greatly exaggerated.>

  You either misread or are misinformed. Read it again, or disagree. Facts are facts.

  -A