JW Kids Leave the Organization: Facts

by Maximus 141 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Eyebrow

  My experience that was by the time I was 14 years old there were two other teens in the hall that I felt I could trust, because like me they were NOT living a double life. There was another two sons of an elder, but they were snobby to me. Unfortunately, neither one went to my school and I did not have transportation to get to be with them very much.

  I agree that most leave not because of beliefs but because they want to have fun. As kids in my family we were discouraged from associating with non Witness kids, even when there was no one else to play with. I made friends secretly in high school around sophmore year because I could not take the lonliness any longer. After a year or so I just stopped going to the meetings because I did not want to lead a double life. However, after about 4 years I came back. I had no doubts the time I was gone that it was The Truth.

  It was interesting to note that out of about 15 kids that I grew up with in the truth, only those two that were my age group were still there. (And the two elder's sons.) Many were reproved and came back, baptised, and then disfellowshipped. As a result, many parents of younger kids started to become a lot more restrive of whom they let their kids hang out with, etc.

  Growing up we had quite a few acitivies, such as organized rollerskating, talent shows, cook outs, and square dances. Of course, there were several talks over the years about certain dancing, etc., but since these were all family events and well supervised, it was not a problem. These were things that were open to all in the congregation. However, there were a lot more get togethers that were more informal and that I was hardly ever invited to because I was not that popular amongst the double life leading kids.

  If my mother had allowed me to participate in sports and other school sponsored activities more I really believe that I would have not been so anxious to find friends anywhere I could. One of my older sisters is studying, and the sister that studies with her allows her two sons to play organized sports because she realizes that they NEED activity. Meetings and field service are NOT enough!

  When I finally left as an adult, it was for matters of conscience, not for social reasons. In fact, I miss many of my JW friends. I am not DF'd or Dis Assoc., but that does not change the fact that many view me as bad association. If I started going back to the Hall this Sunday, I could invite several of them over for a visit a few weeks from now and they would come. But I will not lead a double life. I wish that teens would not lead a double life, even though they feel they are forced too. If you parents make you go, then go, but don't answer at the meetings, don't go out in field service, and if you are asked, you should respectfully say that you are here for your parents.
  Yes, that is unrealistic for some, but maybe for others their parents will stop making them go.

  Max,

  I would like to know exactly where you get your figures from. Thanks!
• 

  proplog2

  Most of the problems with the organization is that it has lost its vision. The glue that held them together for over 100 years is gone.
  They always had some sort of date in mind for everything to come to a finish. The organization itself has abandoned date setting. The last of the great "time-keepers" Fred Franz died shortly after they changed the "generation-of-1914" idea.

  Without a specific date to look forward to they become just another religion BUT with a lot of excess bagage. The excess bagage wasn't a burden for the short time periods they thought they had to endure. The kids in the organization are following the directions of their parents. Parents are telling their kids "don't make the stupid mistakes we made".

  Even though the whole scaffold of their prophecies are collapsing there is no one in the organization with the sapiential authority to change anything.

  In my scheme this very situation is a sign that the great tribulation is about to begin. The great tribulation, although having world wide effects is primarily on "a third of the earth" Rev. 8:7 It is the Western World that is causing havoc with its greed, materialism & militarism. The preaching work is finished in the Western World.
  It is time for Babylon The Great-USA to be destroyed by the revived Revelation Beast - Russia/Soviet Union. Jehovah's Witnesses in the USA will discern the sign and the time to flee to the hospitality of their South American brothers thus escaping Babylon's destruction. No other religion is so united world wide. This brotherhood that you all complain about and criticize will save those who discern the times.
• 

  Nicodemus

  Maximus,

  Great post! This subject needs to be brought out into the open and talked about.

  Here are a few of my observations and comments, in no particular order.

  1. Maximus, I believe you recently commented on a recent KM part “encouraging” Bethel service, and found it frightening. If I recall, I posted a brief comment back suggesting that this KM insert be compared with one that appeared in the KM of March, 1995. While both encouraged Bethel service, I found the 3/95 article to be much more balanced and positive than the latest one. As just one example, here’s a small excerpt from the 3/95 article re: education:

  km 3/95 6 Bethel Service-More Volunteers Needed
  16 Sometimes young ones ask: “Should I get extra secular training to qualify for Bethel service?” Secular training, in itself, does not qualify a person for Bethel service. Spiritual qualities are all-important and required of all who are invited. We encourage parents and their children who are still of school age to consider carefully the balanced view of secular education that is presented in The Watchtower of November 1, 1992, pages 15 to 21. A decision on secular education is a personal matter. Whatever a person decides, he should make sure that he is able to maintain his spiritual progress by continuing to focus on the principal work of Jehovah’s people, bearing witness to the truth.

  Compare that to the wording in the latest article, which essentially discouraged pursuing additional education with the thought that it might help you get into Bethel. But, in the very same context, they commented that they needed people with qualifications in various “professional” fields, and suggested that perhaps some who received such training before they became Witnesses might want to apply.

  This brings up a scenario a long-time elder shared with me years ago. Namely, that a kid who grows up “in the truth,” and does everything “by the book,” may end up having as his “overseer” or “superior” in the organization a brother who grew up in the world, got an education, perhaps even partied and caroused. How do I explain this to my son, and suggest that he follow this counsel?

  2. I find that kids that come from well-to-do families often have the upper hand in attaining spiritual “privileges.” For example, the Society encourages that, if you are going to get “supplementary education,” you consider pioneering at the same time.

  While I am in no way opposed to that idea per se, I think that it can have the effect of separating the “haves” from the “have-nots.” Namely, that a well-to-do family can “sponsor” their child in this endeavor, allowing them to live at home, and providing funding for all their needs, possibly even giving the child a carefully structured work schedule in the family business to earn a few bucks. I’ve known kids that do this, and simultaneously have a pretty good life, their own car, etc.

  On the other hand, consider a poor family. If their young one wants to go to school, to try and elevate his or her economic prospects, likely they would have to do the classic routine of attending school and work to earn their way. Often, that doesn’t leave much time for pioneering. So, then, is the child of the well-to-do family a “better” servant of Jehovah?

  3. I believe that we take some perfectly valid Bible principles, but then turn them into rules that likely stunt the development of our kids. For example, I don’t quibble with the principles expressed at 1 Cor 15:33 and Pr. 13:20. However, to use those principles to tell a kid that he can’t play any school sports, or participate in the school band because it’s “extracurricular” is, in my view, becoming Pharasaical. While I believe it is true that participation in such activities can lead to “bad association,” I don’t believe that such participation is bad association in and of itself. And, while it is true that one can find potential negatives in such activities (i.e. the “spirit of competition”), one can also see where they teach positive traits. Being in a band teaches discipline and teamwork. So does playing an organized sport. Not to mention what Lisa Bobeesa covered so well, allowing kids to discover and express who they are as individuals.

  That’s all for now.
• 

  Maximus

  I went to bed last night reflecting on the wisdom of Lisa's insightful post about the developmental aspects of growing up, key to understanding the needs of young persons. There is an abundant supply of printed information that is basic to understanding, which JW oversight completely ignores.

  Instead of counting sheep, I found myself wanting to make sure I had correctly counted the number of GB men I spoke of actually knowing well, not just those of casual acquaintance. While counting such, ahem, sheep I had a flash:

  Only one GB member of the ten has IMNSHO the capacity for introspection. Possibly only one has ever cracked ANY textbook on childhood development or developmental psychology. The sum total of their information has come from what the organization has published and whatever the Watchtower culture has accepted as truth!

  Their imprinting has been total.

  I believe GB member Ted Jaracz holds the record for being the youngest DO ever appointed by the Society. You know whence his training.

  Nicodemus, you are spot on in your observations. That's why one constantly reads admonition in the publications not to envy "those younger ones receiving privileges," blah, blah. Some long-time COs and DOs are not too happy seeing some virtual kids on Service desks or teaching them about life. I wonder why.

  : Max,
  : I would like to know exactly where you get your figures from. Thanks!

  Golly, that's just what the lurkers from Legal are asking. Let's just say I get a little help from my friends now and then, who want the truth not just to be "out there" but to be understood by all. Like Kent, I don't publish anything unless it is true.

  Maximus
• 

  Room 215

  If Max' figures are accurate, and I'm inclined to think the rate of loss is a bit lower than 88 percent (purely unscientfic, subjective impression), then it's really ominous for Brooklyn. The numbers of baptisms, paltry to begin with, are these days comprised mainly of JW youths still of minor age.
• 

  Maximus

  Please note my figure was 86.4%, which I rounded off to 86%.

  I assure you some of the above posters above are individuals who also know whereof they speak. The Society continues to be in serious trouble.

  Max
• 

  MrMoe

  I can really see your point, Maximus.

  In our hall when there were 40 kids +/- (ages 5-18) that I have seen come and go. 1 went to bethel, was removed and is no longer a MS, 2 got married and are happy and good JW's (although the one was removed as a JW a while back for fondling a sister out in service and the other is rumored to have had sex and done coke with another MS boyfriend) a few still live with mom and dad so have no choice but their rebellion is obvious and the rest are inactive, df'd or no longer JW's. So, out of this group that I saw over the years, none are real adult JW's except for the 3 who probably came back because of the pressure.
• 

  hillary_step

  Room215,

  Maximus' figures are correct to within a few percentage points. I have seen them in 'report'.

  Incidentally, I thoroughly enjoyed your post on Adam Bauerlein.

  Thank you - HS
• 

  JAVA

  Maximus,

  I've been away from the forum for awhile, but this thread perked my interest. First a comment about Jaracz; we had him as a DO, and the guy was nothing more than an egotistical tyrant. NO ONE looked forward to his inquisitions, and even most brown-noised Tower enforcers hated this jerk. From what I understand, his spots didn't changed when he crossed the Brooklyn Bridge.

  Speaking of Brooklyn, does anyone know how many exit the Tower when leaving Bethel? I imagine the percentage is high, perhaps as high as exiting children. If the Society can't keep their own from jumping ship, it seems ridiculous and hyprcritical offering parents advice on a topic they fail at miserably.

  --JAVA

  counting time at the Coffee Shop
• 

  joelbear

  Okay, whoa whoa whoa.

  Some people must still be staying, the number of witnesses increased almost 50% in just the last 10 years. from 4 to 6 million.

  So, they are still growing and I would say at a rather rapid pace.