Jehovah KILLED Jesus before he came to earth (page 2)

Kaput

The "celebrated WT scholars" provide the scriptural correspondencies linking Michael to Jesus Christ in Volume 2 of the Insight on the Scriptures book, pages 393-394 under the topic "Michael". Naturally they don't provide the specifics of Michael's and Jesus' duality because everything is based on faith (in them), remember?

simplesally

Very interesting topic. I would guess they would just say his life force was transferred into the womb. I would assume they would say that because Jesus was quite aware of the process of creation, the power of Jehovah's holy spirit, he was confident that all would be fine as he chose to submit to the transferance.

Severus

From the Society (notice there are no scriptural references for the highlighted statements):

Watchtower 1990 10/15 p. 12 Appreciating Why the Messiah Was to Come

Thus, Jesus applied to himself the prophecy at Psalm 40:6-8, which foretold Jehovah’s purpose to bring an end to animal sacrifices offered by Aaronic priests at Jerusalem’s temple. Jehovah did not "delight" in those offerings, in that they were only typical and unable to atone completely for human sin. Hence, Jehovah prepared a perfect human body for Jesus to sacrifice. God transferred the life of his heavenly Son to the womb of a Jewish virgin. Jesus was thus born uncontaminated by the sin of Adam. He was a perfect human Son of God, whose life could atone for the sin of mankind. (Luke 1:30-35) As Psalm 40:8 foretold, it was Jesus’ heartfelt desire to do his Father’s will. "By the said ‘will’ we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time."—Hebrews 10:10, 11.

Watchtower 1990 1/15 p. 12 A Sacred Secret Unfolds

10

At Jesus’ baptism the first feature of the sacred secret became apparent: Jesus "was made manifest in flesh" as the anointed Son of God. Jehovah God had transferred his Son’s life from heaven to the womb of Mary so that Jesus could be born in the flesh as a perfect human. Thus, as 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 shows, Jesus became a second, or "last," Adam, a perfect human soul corresponding exactly to the first Adam. For what purpose? First Timothy 2:5, 6 refers to "the last Adam" as "a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." On this legal basis of a perfect human sacrifice, Jesus mediates the new covenant toward the 144,000 humans who become joint heirs with him in his Kingdom.—Revelation 14:1-3.

Reasoning

p. 199 par. 4 Jehovah’s Witnesses ***

(3)

Jesus Christ: They believe, not that Jesus Christ is part of a Trinity, but that, as the Bible says, he is the Son of God, the first of God’s creations; that he had a prehuman existence and that his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a virgin, Mary; that his perfect human life laid down in sacrifice makes possible salvation to eternal life for those who exercise faith; that Christ is actively ruling as King, with God-given authority over all the earth since 1914.

tetrapod.sapien

VM44,

yes, very good point. i have never thought about this, or the implications very much at all. thank you!

That being so, what about during the time just before Jesus came to earth, when Jehovah transferred the memories of Michael the Archangel to the egg in Mary's womb? The egg that would develop and latter be born as Jesus the child?

however, i was always under the impression during my witnoid years that jesus got all of his old memories back via some mysterious technical process that involved the holy spirit, during the 40 days and 40 nights that he miraculously stayed awake and alive without eating or drinking after he got baptised.

*how* would jehovah (or the other two members of the trinity, for you trinitarians) convert the spiritual memories of jesus (from all time, not just since the universe was created, because one would assume that he needed those too to be, ahem, "Jesus") to physical/synaptical ones in a humans brain? and if this full process was not possible, then was it really jesus that died? and did he really fix our sins? hilarious stuff man!

and if "god" killed "jesus" before he came down, then isn't the same dif as the ransom on earth? he just had to die right? and jehovah's word never goes out without comming back to him, so jesus was bound to die on earth anyways, so jehovah actually killed him twice. what a rip off. and why did jesus have to grow up as a boy and then die as a man? if jehovah was capable of somehow transfering all of jesus memories from the begining of the universe (or from infinity if you think jesus IS god), then why didn't he just pick some guy to inhabit? or maybe just miraculously make a perfect man from the dust like he did adam? i thought he was there to atone for adam's sin anyways?

which brings me to another point i have said about jesus before. he only had mary's genome. so he was only half human. just data. so, how is it that a half human, was able to atone for the sins of all full blown humans?

man, this jesus stuff is easy and fun. they should make a kids book for the apologists.

TS

slugga

Maybe Michael's spirit body just possessed the blank Jesus fetus much like a demon could possess a human body.

tetrapod.sapien

hey slugga man,

Maybe Michael's spirit body just possessed the blank Jesus fetus much like a demon could possess a human body.

but what *is* this "spirit"? and how does it intereact with embryonic development and our genomes? our genomes, which have entire areas that are actually not human at all, but other organisms who pasted themselves in there via symbiosis because we had more space than they did, chromosome-wise. what about the 97% of our genome that we share with chimps? how did the spirit fix that part of our genomes so he could be a perfect "human"?

i am not saying that you say this stuff. but i am saying that people who just say: "god did it via the spirit" suffer from a psychological phenomena called: "mental discontinuity". it means that they can say something like this, but they do not allow their minds to search out the resulting implications of their logic. what does it mean to say that jesus was previously a "spiritual" being, and then became a "perfect human"? xians will say that we cannot know the mysteries of God. i say that is a cop out to avoid thinking about it altogether. cheers, TS oh, and PS: fetuses are not blank, as i am sure you know. they have genomes. genomes make us who we are. when we are fetuses, we have just as much genomic data as when we are adults. so they would have had to insert perfection, or uncripple the genome. heh.

slugga

how did the spirit fix that part of our genomes so he could be a perfect "human"?

Ehh you'll prob think this a cop out but fetal Jesus was created by Jehovah, he wasn't the result of a human conception. So if you can accept a god can jump start the birth process and impregnate a virgin you're gonna have to swallow the fact that he can also chuck out the corrupt DNA from the raw material he used, that being one of Mary's eggs. The resulting foetus was then like an empty house for Micheal to move into. The bible says spirits can possess bodies and the examples given show that problems arrive when two personalities try to inhabit that same body. In Jesus case he would have moved into an empty vessel.

tetrapod.sapien

really?

yes. with all due respect, you are right, i do think that is a cop out.

biology shows us that we are the *expressions of genes*. if you are a xian, then you could say "that is the way god made us". but still, we are the expressions of genes. dogs are the expressions of their genes. beetles are the expression of their genes. humans are the expression of their genes.

if jesus was not an expression of genes, but rather inhabited by the spirit of michael the arch angel, then he was not a *human*. ergo, he could not have died for our sins. at that point it is the same as having an *angel* die for our sins, not a *human*. an empty shell of a human body does not make a human. a human is a human when they have a genome.

and if jesus was not a human when he died, then i would not worry about being a xian.

take care,

josh

tetrapod.sapien

The resulting foetus was then like an empty house for Micheal to move into.

it could not have been an "empty vessel" (i think language is a problem for xians. not technical enough), because *every single* cell in our body contains a copy of our genome *from both human parents*, not just the mother. the cells in your big toe, not only contain the code for your big toe, but also the code for everything else. our entire history, and that of our ancestors who came before us.

so you see, the code makes us who we are. we are the expression of our genes. if god just "tossed" out the "corrupt" dna, then we could not still be humans, since humans are in the end, made of cells.

TS

slugga

Ok so if you were possessed by a spirit you would no longer be human?

You'd still have human genes, you'd still be an expession of those human genes.

Jehovah KILLED Jesus before he came to earth

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